The “sin lists” in the NT condemn all habitual sinners!

Discussion in 'Calvinism/Arminianism Debate' started by Samuels, Jul 6, 2016.

  1. Samuels

    Samuels
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    Throughout the Bible, God views sin as indicative of rebellion, disobedience, and unbelief. Those born-again have been given a new nature by which they are no longer slaves of sin! And they have been given the Holy Spirit, who has come to help them overcome their sins! Compared to the OT, God’s born-again people have NO excuse for failure to be overcomers!

    1 Corinthians 6:8-10, TLB
    “But, instead, you yourselves are the ones who do wrong, cheating others, even your own brothers. Don’t you know that those doing such things have no share in the Kingdom of God? Don’t fool yourselves. Those who live immoral lives, who are idol worshipers, adulterers or homosexuals — will have no share in his Kingdom. Neither will thieves or greedy people, drunkards, slanderers, or robbers.”

    • No habitual sinner will have any part in the Kingdom of God.

    Galatians 5:18-24, TLB
    “When you are guided by the Holy Spirit, you need no longer force yourself to obey Jewish laws. But when you follow your own wrong inclinations, your lives will produce these evil results: impure thoughts, eagerness for lustful pleasure, idolatry, spiritism, hatred and fighting, jealousy and anger, constant effort to get the best for yourself … and there will be wrong doctrine, envy, murder, drunkenness, wild parties, and all that sort of thing. Let me tell you again, as I have before, that anyone living that sort of life will not inherit the Kingdom of God. … Those who belong to Christ have nailed their natural evil desires to his cross and crucified them there.”

    • No one who lives/walks in the flesh will inherit the Kingdom of God.

    Ephesians 5:3-7, TLB
    “Let there be no sex sin, impurity or greed among you. Let no one be able to accuse you of any such things. Dirty stories, foul talk, and coarse jokes — these are not for you. Instead, remind each other of God’s goodness, and be thankful. You can be sure of this: the Kingdom of Christ and of God will never belong to anyone who is impure or greedy, for a greedy person is really an idol worshiper — he loves and worships the good things of this life more than God. Don’t be fooled by those who try to excuse these sins, for the terrible wrath of God is upon all those who do them. Don’t even associate with such people.”

    • No Kingdom of God for them, and are those receiving God’s wrath going to heaven?

    Colossians 3:5-8, TLB
    “Away then with sinful, earthly things; deaden the evil desires lurking within you; have nothing to do with sexual sin, impurity, lust, and shameful desires; don’t worship the good things of life, for that is idolatry. God’s terrible anger is upon those who do such things. You used to do them when your life was still part of this world; but now is the time to cast off and throw away all these rotten garments of anger, hatred, cursing, and dirty language.”
    3:6, NKJV – “Because of these things the wrath of God is coming upon the sons of disobedience”

    • Will anyone who receives God’s terrible anger and wrath be going to heaven?

    Revelation 21:7-8, TLB
    “Everyone who conquers (is victorious, overcomes) will inherit all these blessings, and I will be his God and he will be my son. But cowards who turn back from following me, and those who are unfaithful to me, and the corrupt, and murderers, and the immoral, and those conversing with demons, and idol worshipers and all liars — their doom is in the Lake that burns with fire and sulphur. This is the Second Death.”

    • 8 examples of habitual sinners who will be thrown into the Lake of Fire.

    Revelation 22:14-15, TLB
    “Blessed forever are all who are washing their robes, to have the right to enter in through the gates of the city (the New Jerusalem) and to eat the fruit from the Tree of Life. Outside the city are those who have strayed away from God, and the sorcerers and the immoral and murderers and idolaters, and all who love to lie, and do so.”
    22:14-15, NKJV – “Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city. But outside are dogs and sorcerers and sexually immoral and murderers and idolaters, and whoever loves and practices a lie.”

    • 6 examples of habitual sinners who will not be allowed to enter the city of the New Jerusalem.
     
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  2. Martin Marprelate

    Martin Marprelate
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    Psalm 130:3. 'If you, O LORD, should mark iniquities, O Lord, who could stand?
    But there is forgiveness with You, that You may be feared.'


    Acts 13:38-39. 'Therefore let it be know to you, brethren, that through this Man [Jesus Christ] is preached to you the forgiveness of sins; and by Him everyone who believes is justified from all things from which you could not be justified by the law of Moses.'

    Romans 8:1. 'There is now therefore no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit.'

    Just firing off texts proves nothing. You need to reconcile the texts you quoted with the ones here.
     
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  3. Samuels

    Samuels
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    WOW! YES! ...
    You have the KEY to wisdom and understanding,
    which almost every Christian is missing!
    RECONCILING ALL OF THE NT VERSES.
    As for your 3 passages:
    1) Sincere repentance results in God's forgiveness!
    2) We are not talking about following the law of Moses!
    We need to see what true saving belief/faith entails!
    A world-famous Spirit-filled evangelist did a deep study
    on this years ago, and concluded that saving faith was:
    belief-faith-trust-obedience.
    3) To be "in Christ" is to not be into habitual sinning!
    Those who are "in Christ" are not walking according
    to the flesh!
     
    #3 Samuels, Jul 7, 2016
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2016
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  4. Martin Marprelate

    Martin Marprelate
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    I can agree with much of what you're saying, but I think we need to be very careful not to fall into 'Works Salvation' because none of us can in our own strength live a life that is pleasing to God. At our very best and highest we are 'unprofitable servants' (Luke 17:10). '......Not having a righteousness of my own which is from the law, but that which is by faith in Christ, the righteousness which is from God by faith' (Philippians 3:9).

    'When Satan tempts ne to despair
    And tells me of the guilt within,
    Upwards I look and see Him there
    Who made an end of all my sin.
    Because the sinless saviour died,
    My guilty soul is counted free;
    For God the Just is satisfied
    To look on Him and pardon me.'


    I wonder if you can agree with this, which is from the Baptist 1689 Confession of faith:

    Chapter 15: Of Repentance Unto Life and Salvation
    1._____ Such of the elect as are converted at riper years, having sometime lived in the state of nature, and therein served divers lusts and pleasures, God in their effectual calling giveth them repentance unto life. ( Titus 3:2-5 )
    2._____ Whereas there is none that doth good and sinneth not, and the best of men may, through the power and deceitfulness of their corruption dwelling in them, with the prevalency [sic] of temptation, fall into great sins and provocations; God hath, in the covenant of grace, mercifully provided that believers so sinning and falling be renewed through repentance unto salvation.
    ( Ecclesiastes 7:20; Luke 22:31-32 )
    3._____ This saving repentance is an evangelical grace, whereby a person, being by the Holy Spirit made sensible of the manifold evils of his sin, doth, by faith in Christ, humble himself for it with godly sorrow, detestation of it, and self-abhorrence, praying for pardon and strength of grace, with a purpose and endeavour, by supplies of the Spirit, to walk before God unto all well-pleasing in all things.
    ( Zechariah 12:10; Acts 11:18; Ezekiel 36:31; 2 Corinthians 7:11; Psalms 119:6; Psalms 119:128 )
    4._____ As repentance is to be continued through the whole course of our lives, upon the account of the body of death, and the motions thereof, so it is every man's duty to repent of his particular known sins particularly.
    ( Luke 19:8; 1 Timothy 1:13, 15 )
    5._____ Such is the provision which God hath made through Christ in the covenant of grace for the preservation of believers unto salvation; that although there is no sin so small but it deserves damnation; yet there is no sin so great that it shall bring damnation on them that repent; which makes the constant preaching of repentance necessary.
    ( Romans 6:23; Isaiah 1:16-18 Isaiah 55:7 )
     
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  5. Samuels

    Samuels
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    But, we must (with our God-given free-will)
    choose to co-operate with the indwelling
    Holy Spirit during the fully working out
    of our sanctification.

    We are led by the Holy Spirit ... to obey while
    doing our part in the working out of our salvation,
    which is process and not a one-time event.
    I would rather not analyze the different
    "doctrines of men", but instead just
    focus on what Scripture teaches us!

    IMO, most of "the doctrines of men"
    come directly from Satan and are passed
    on to believers through the churches.

    We are to trust only in the Scriptures
    and in the Holy Spirit, who says nothing
    against what the Scriptures say.
     
    #5 Samuels, Jul 8, 2016
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2016
  6. Martin Marprelate

    Martin Marprelate
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    Those who 'resist the Holy Spirit' (Acts 7:51) are the unsaved. If one is a Christian, it is God who works in you to will and to do of His good pleasure' (Philippians 2:13)

    We are certainly called to be active in working out our salvation (Philippians 2:12). However, our justification is a one-time event when we trust in Christ for salvation (Romans 5:6-11). We work, not in order to save ourselves, but because we have been saved (Ephesians 2:10; Colossians 3:1-3).
    The extracts from the Confession that I posted came with proof texts. You are certainly not obliged to agree with them but you ought to be strong and brainy enough to be able to say where you disagree.
    In saying this you are in company with some of the greatest heretics who ever lived: Charles Taze Russell and David Koresh to name but two. The devil himself can quote Scripture.
     
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  7. TCassidy

    TCassidy
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    So you do not believe the will of the lost is in bondage to the law of sin and death?

    And you don't think the will of the saved is now bound to the law of new life in Christ?
     
  8. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast
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    ="Samuels,


    So the godly men who wrote the confessions of faith.....did not focus on the truth of scripture?????
    I wonder why they wrote this then????
    CHAPTER 1; OF THE HOLY SCRIPTURES
    Paragraph 1. The Holy Scripture is the only sufficient, certain, and infallible rule of all saving knowledge, faith, and obedience,1 although the light of nature, and the works of creation and providence do so far manifest the goodness, wisdom, and power of God, as to leave men inexcusable; yet they are not sufficient to give that knowledge of God and His will which is necessary unto salvation.2 Therefore it pleased the Lord at sundry times and in diversified manners to reveal Himself, and to declare (that) His will unto His church;3 and afterward for the better preserving and propagating of the truth, and for the more sure establishment and comfort of the church against the corruption of the flesh, and the malice of Satan, and of the world, to commit the same wholly unto writing; which makes the Holy Scriptures to be most necessary, those former ways of God's revealing His will unto His people being now completed.4
    1 2 Tim. 3:15-17; Isa. 8:20; Luke 16:29,31; Eph. 2:20
    2 Rom. 1:19-21, 2:14,15; Psalm 19:1-3
    3 Heb. 1:1
    4 Prov. 22:19-21; Rom. 15:4; 2 Pet. 1:19,20

    o now you suggest it was written by Satan???:Cautious:Cautious:Cautious
    ok...lets see what "satan"sent to us then......
    21 Matt. 22:29, 31, 32; Eph. 2:20; Acts 28:23

    CHAPTER 2; OF GOD AND OF THE HOLY TRINITY
    Paragraph 1. The Lord our God is but one only living and true God;1 whose subsistence is in and of Himself,2 infinite in being and perfection; whose essence cannot be comprehended by any but Himself;3 a most pure spirit,4 invisible, without body, parts, or passions, who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto;5 who is immutable,6 immense,7 eternal,8 incomprehensible, almighty,9 every way infinite, most holy,10 most wise, most free, most absolute; working all things according to the counsel of His own immutable and most righteous will,11 for His own glory;12 most loving, gracious, merciful, long-suffering, abundant in goodness and truth, forgiving iniquity, transgression, and sin; the rewarder of them that diligently seek Him,13 and withal most just and terrible in His judgments,14 hating all sin,15 and who will by no means clear the guilty.16
    1 1 Cor. 8:4,6; Deut. 6:4
    2 Jer. 10:10; Isa. 48:12
    3 Exod. 3:14
    4 John 4:24
    5 1 Tim. 1:17; Deut. 4:15,16
    6 Mal. 3:6
    7 1 Kings 8:27; Jer. 23:23
    8 Ps. 90:2
    9 Gen. 17:1
    10 Isa. 6:3
    11 Ps. 115:3; Isa. 46:10
    12 Prov. 16:4; Rom. 11:36
    13 Exod. 34:6,7; Heb. 11:6
    14 Neh. 9:32,33
    15 Ps. 5:5,6
    16 Exod. 34:7; Nahum 1:2,3

    Wow...satan wants to share a lot of scripture I suppose:Devilish....who knew?:eek:
     
  9. Samuels

    Samuels
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    I have time at the moment to point out:
    -- also try very hard to understand/comprehend Romans 6!
    -- Both Ephesians and Colossians were written only to
    the "faithful" saints, (1:1 and 1:2 respectively),
    not to the unfaithful ones!
     
  10. Martin Marprelate

    Martin Marprelate
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    Well we all try to do that! easier said than done! I will just point out Romans 6:14. 'For sin shall not have dominion over you, for you are not under law but under grace.' It's not 'must not....' but 'shall not.......' Those who are in Christ shall know victory over sin- only partially in this life, but nonetheless truly- and therefore when Paul bids us reckon yourselves to be dead indeed to sin.....' (v.11), he is not telling us to believe something that isn't true, but to realise who we are: '.....alive to God in Christ Jesus our Lord.' 'Therefore if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new!' (2 Cor. 5:17).
    There is no such thing as an 'unfaithful saint.' Can you find the term anywhere in Scripture? If someone is unfaithful to God, he isn't a saint.
     
  11. Samuels

    Samuels
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    Okay, have it your way.
    Paul was writing ONLY to the faithful believers in
    Ephesus and Colossae, not to the unfaithful ones!

    Is there any church anywhere where all those
    sitting in the pews are living faithful to their calling?
    Surely, there must be some here and there.

    Let's try the NLT ...
    Ephesus 1:1
    "This letter is from Paul, chosen by the will of God to be an apostle of Christ Jesus. I am writing to God’s holy people in Ephesus, who are faithful followers of Christ Jesus."

    Ditto for Colossians 1:2.
     
  12. Samuels

    Samuels
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    God has always known who His "elect" are!
    These chosen ones were called unto salvation.
    Many NT verses say: God chooses, not us!
    And some verses say believers were chosen
    to be fully sanctified unto holiness.
    No one other than His "elect" have a chance
    for heaven, right?

    IMO, the "sin list" passages were given to His "elect"
    to help them "toe the line" as they try to walk forward
    along the narrow road (Matthew 7:13-14).

    These warnings were given to remind them that:
    -- salvation is not to be taken lightly
    -- God's chosen ones have responsibilities
    Why else would they be in the NT?

    Now, of course, the question is:
    Can one of God's elected chosen ones
    refuse His grace and choose to live in sin
    without repentance until his/her death
    ... and thus not be saved?

    Please try to remember that man has free will
    and was not created to be any kind of robot.
     
    #12 Samuels, Aug 6, 2016
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2016
  13. utilyan

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    Galatians 5 is pretty powerful because it has WARNINGS.

    21envying, drunkenness, carousing, and things like these, of which I forewarn you, just as I have forewarned you, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.


    If Calvinist position were true, There is no warning at all. A warning implies some type of advice that is a aid. If you are a reprobate there is no warning you are just doomed period. Likewise if you are elect there is no warning either you are just saved period.


    As a Calvinist I wouldn't debate, warn, advise a reprobate.thats useless my only course of action is request and make prayer of God.

    Some of the best proof of the absurdity of Calvinism is complaining when folks do wrong. I wouldn't bother with sinners at all.

    If I was Calvinist debating anyone would be self-refuting. You are incapable of changing anyone's mind.


    There is basic level common sense, goodness, logic that has been overlooked.

    Even the God commands is something folks can't even equate to God's want and desire.

    How can you not know the command of God is his exact desire?


    If God commands ALL to not sin, that is a command for all to be save. That is his want and desire.
    ^that doesn't say everyone is going to be saved, learn to read.
     

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