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The 10 commandments and being saved

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by Chowmah, Jul 3, 2010.

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  1. Gerhard Ebersoehn

    Gerhard Ebersoehn Active Member
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    GE:

    O no, Chowman, you accuse me of damnable heresy of which I am guiltless. You do not even taken into consideration my whole statement.

    Are you a Jew? They keep the Sabbath because the Fourth Commandment orders them to, though they do not have an idea of the Sabbath’s true – and ONLY – real blessing, which is as the Body of Christ’s Own to feast of Christ, eating and drinking of Him spiritually, worshipping Him through the blessing and sanctity the Redemption through and in HIM only, commands and demands. No unbeliever can ever understand SUCH a Sabbath Day, what, “DELIGHT” in it.

    Is Jesus Christ the only reason why you keep the Sabbath? It is a yes, or, a no. There is NO in between answer. That is the only question we may ever be asked in the day of reckoning. If you are in Christ, He has already answered that question on your behalf, and paid for your transgression of the Sabbath Commandment once for all. So don’t worry about keeping the Sabbath perfectly, because then you will simply be deceiving yourself (as said Barnabas); but heartily “FEAST Sabbaths whether of punctual month’s occurrence, or of regular Sabbaths’ perpetuity; only, do not let yourselves be intimidated and condemned with regard to it”— as said Paul whose writing became part of the Canon of Holy Scripture inspired and providentially protected by Almighty God.
     
    #41 Gerhard Ebersoehn, Jul 12, 2010
  2. Gerhard Ebersoehn

    Gerhard Ebersoehn Active Member
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    GE:
    Yes; but your faith has been accounted you unto righteousness. God does not see you as a transgressor of the Law; He sees you in Jesus Christ, sinless and blameless. And that being so, would you rather serve under the yoke of the Law or under Christ --- also as far as your obedience to the Fourth Commandment is concerned?
     
    #42 Gerhard Ebersoehn, Jul 12, 2010
  3. Gerhard Ebersoehn

    Gerhard Ebersoehn Active Member
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    Why do you ask me? I have in my whole life not kept one Sabbath Day holy; have been the worst of transgressors of it, 69 years. You think that changes anything concerning The Day of Rest of the LORD your God? Even Paul realised our weak and beggarly way of keeping our Lord's Day; he calls it "But a shadow of things-a-coming". But says he: "The Body is Christ's Own" --- YOU REMAIN THE PEOPLE OF GOD! "Because Jesus had given them rest .... THEREFORE THERE REMAINS VALID FOR THE PEOPLE OF GOD their keeping holy of the Sabbath Day."

    Billwald, don't ever again allege God did not _GIVE_ his Sabbath Day in the New Testament through and by and IN, Jesus Christ --- if you are a Christian, which I believe you are. Because a Christian raises not his voice against God's Word through Christ.
     
    #43 Gerhard Ebersoehn, Jul 12, 2010
  4. Gerhard Ebersoehn

    Gerhard Ebersoehn Active Member
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    GE:
    He who cannot see the New Testament and Grace-answer that the Seventh Day Sabbath has been re-enacted through Christ in Christ under the Covenant of Grace, must be --- not blind --- but exceedingly obstinate. Can there be better or more, or more loving kindness be revealed whereby one might be persuaded Christ is the answer in the affirmative than the rest Jesus had given his People? As the writer wrote: "If Jesus had given them rest, God would NOT AGAIN speak of another day of salvation-opportunity." Hb4:8.
     
    #44 Gerhard Ebersoehn, Jul 12, 2010
  5. Gerhard Ebersoehn

    Gerhard Ebersoehn Active Member
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    GE:
    Dear Chowman, indeed I did! The exact same one YOU are reading.

    Show me where I added or detracted (or even distracted)! WHERE I INSERTED THE NAME OF CHRIST INSTEAD OF THE LAW? Then I'll rejoice in being accused of having added to the Word of God The One and Only Essence and Content of it! Sing unto the Lord a New Song for it! Great is our Lord!

    PS.
    That's why I am so hated by all Sabbatharian legalists, Sundadarians and Saturdarians alike.
     
    #45 Gerhard Ebersoehn, Jul 12, 2010
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  6. Gerhard Ebersoehn

    Gerhard Ebersoehn Active Member
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    GE:

    Whether you have found it or no, God says in the Scriptures, "JESUS HAD GIVEN THEM REST"-- right here in the now, so that "God SWORE, They shall not enter MY REST"; and, "He would NOT afterward speak of another day (of salvation-rest)." How would God PREVENT some to "enter His Own Rest" if He not "Himself have entered in into" it? "But NOW, in view of the fact we who have believed DO ENTER INTO GOD'S REST" --- "a Promise BEING LEFT US of entering into His Rest" : NOW!

    This says Hebrews speaking of the very same Rest of God given his People "TODAY, if you HEAR his Voice" or Word, Jesus Christ— spoken of and promised THROUGHOUT the Scriptures.

    So, to deny “Jesus giving people a "rest" in the now” is to deny both Jesus and the People of God. For He is our rest, and us, are His People— the People-of-his-Rest. The same People as David who prayed, “The Lord is my Shepherd”.
     
    #46 Gerhard Ebersoehn, Jul 12, 2010
  7. Chowmah

    Chowmah Member

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    My bible and book you quoted are not even close

    Galatians 3:23-29
    But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed. [24] Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. [25] But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster. [26] For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. [27] For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. [28] There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. [29] And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

    Not even......close
     
    #47 Chowmah, Jul 12, 2010
  8. Chowmah

    Chowmah Member

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    I love ya GE
     
    #48 Chowmah, Jul 12, 2010
  9. DHK

    DHK <b>Moderator</b>

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    That accusation is a bit strong. You are stating only your interpretation which not every one here shares. If he doesn't share your opinion it doesn't mean he is not a Christian. If he doesn't believe as you do it doesn't mean he is raising his voice against God's Word through Christ.

    Christ nailed the law to the cross. It is done away with.
     
    #49 DHK, Jul 12, 2010
  10. Chowmah

    Chowmah Member

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    HEBREWS 4 [7] Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, TO DAY IF YE WILL HEAR HIS VOICE, HARDEN NOT YOUR HEARTS.

    In Hebrews 3 and 4 we find the words “TO DAY IF YE WILL HEAR HIS VOICE, HARDEN NOT YOUR HEARTS.” No one can argue that they are not speaking about the same subject.

    HEBREWS 3 [12]Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God. [13] But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. [14] For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end; [15] While it is said, TO DAY IF YE WILL HEAR HIS VOICE, HARDEN NOT YOUR HEARTS, as in the provocation. [16] For some, when they had heard, did provoke: howbeit not all that came OUT OF EGYPT by Moses. [17] But with whom was he grieved forty years? was it not with them that had sinned, WHOSE CARCASES FELL IN THE WILDERNESS? [18] And to whom sware he that they should not enter into his rest, but to them that believed not? [19] So we see that THEY COULD NOT ENTER IN BECAUSE OF UNBELIEF.

    (out of Egypt - into the wilderness - destroyed them)

    EZEK.20 [10] Wherefore I caused them to go forth OUT OF THE LAND OF EGYPT, and brought them INTO THE WILDERNESS. [11] And I gave them my statutes, and shewed them my judgments, which if a man do, he shall even live in them.[12] Moreover also I gave them my sabbaths, to be a sign between me and them, that they might know that I am the LORD that sanctify them.[13] But the house of Israel rebelled against me in the wilderness: they walked not in my statutes, and they despised my judgments, which if a man do, he shall even live in them; and MY SABBATHS THEY GREATLY POLLUTED: then I said, I would pour out my fury upon them IN THE WILDERNESS, TO CONSUME THEM.

    (out of Egypt - into the wilderness - destroyed them)

    To understand Hebrews 4 lets take a look at Hebrews 3. Its very clear Hebrews 3 and Ezek.20 are speaking of the same event (out of Egypt - into the wilderness - destroyed them) found in both scriptures. Theres no doubt. Verse 17 of Hebrews 3 speaks about a peope who were destroyed in the wilderness because they had the spirit of unbelief. Alls ya gotta do is look in Ezek. to find out why they were destroyed. They polluted His sabbath days. Hebrews 3 tells us to take heed that we do not do as they did.

    Do you hear His "voice" now
     
    #50 Chowmah, Jul 12, 2010
  11. Chowmah

    Chowmah Member

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    His sheep hear His voice

    JOHN 10 [27] My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: [28] And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

    Who are the sheep that hear His “voice”? Whats this voice saying? Theres really no need to guess. It is written.

    DEUT. 27 [8] And thou shalt write upon the stones all the words of this law very plainly. [9] And Moses and the priests the Levites spake unto all Israel, saying, Take heed, and hearken, O Israel; this day thou art become the people of the Lord thy God. [10] Thou shalt therefore obey the voice of the Lord thy God, and do his commandments and his statutes, which I command thee this day.

    DEUT. 4 [12] And the Lord spake unto you out of the midst of the fire: ye heard the voice of the words, but saw no similitude; only ye heard a voice. [13] And he declared unto you his covenant, which he commanded you to perform, even ten commandments; and he wrote them upon two tables of stone.

    There always seems to be someone out there that will claim the commandments mentioned are not the ten commandments. Cant do a song and dance around above scripture

    ZEPH. 1 [14] The great day of the Lord is near, it is near, and hasteth greatly, even the voice of the day of the Lord: the mighty man shall cry there bitterly. [15] That day is a day of wrath, a day of trouble and distress, a day of wasteness and desolation, a day of darkness and gloominess, a day of clouds and thick darkness, [16] A day of the trumpet and alarm against the fenced cities, and against the high towers.

    Today if you hear His voice...
     
    #51 Chowmah, Jul 12, 2010
  12. Chowmah

    Chowmah Member

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    In the light of Hebrews 3 simply read Hebrews 4. No song and dance around the written Word

    HEBREWS 4

    [1] Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.[2] For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.[3] FOR WE WHICH HAVE BELIEVED DO ENTER INTO REST, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.

    Have faith in the WORD of God. Enter into Gods rest. His sabbath day.

    [4] For he spake in a certain place of THE SEVENTH DAY on this wise, And GOD DID REST THE SEVENTH DAY from all his works.[5] And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest.

    Its right there in the 1st book of the bible. Yup, the 7th day. That’s Gods sabbath day alright.

    [6] Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:[7] Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.

    Some, to whom it was first preached had the spirit of unbelief and did not enter the sabbath rest (Ezek.20). They were destroyed. Do you hear his voice today? Right now. Don’t harden your heart as they did.

    [8] For IF JESUS HAD GIVEN THEM REST, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.[9] THERE REMAINETH THEREFORE A REST to the people of God.

    You’ve heard the many say “Jesus is my rest”. Well…verse 8 contradicts that? I guess that’s why some translations have taken out the name of Jesus there and stuck in the name of Joshua. Also ealier in this thread someone mentioned verse 8 but kinda forgot to put the word "if" in there. Huge difference. Anyways the rest (sabbath) remains. Ive heard “the many” say verse 9 is speaking of the 1000 yr period of rest. That rest has not yet arrived, its in the future so how could it remain if it isnt yet here? Oh well.

    [10] For HE THAT IS ENTERED INTO HIS REST, he also hath ceased from his own works, AS GOD DID FROM HIS.
    [11] Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.

    Of course the above verses are speaking of the sabbath. Enter into the rest as God also did. Verse 4 says God entered into rest on the seventh day. The sabbath. Verse 11 says we are to enter into that very same rest.

    Ive seen pages and pages written about above scriptures trying to explain that it doesnt really mean what it says. Just believe what it says and enter into the rest GOD created for us. The rest that sanctifys us and sets believers apart from those with the spirit of unbelief, like those who were destroyed in the wilderness (Ezek.20). Don’t harden your heart.
     
    #52 Chowmah, Jul 13, 2010
  13. Gerhard Ebersoehn

    Gerhard Ebersoehn Active Member
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    Chowman, how can the Sabbath and the Rest be the same thing if .... "Of course the above verses are speaking of the sabbath. Enter into the rest as God also did. Verse 4 says God entered into rest on the seventh day. The sabbath. Verse 11 says we are to enter into that very same rest."

    The Seventh Day is the Sabbath; the Seventh Day is not the Rest, and the Sabbath is not the Rest. But because "Jesus had given them Rest, THEREFORE REMAINS a keeping of the Sabbath Day for the People of God". The distinction between Sabbath and Rest is never relinquished.

    The reason, the basis for the People's keeping of the Sabbath, is not theirs, is not by their own doing. It is God's; and that reason and basis of God's own doing, is the Rest that He gives in and through Jesus Christ-- viz. his salvation.
     
    #53 Gerhard Ebersoehn, Jul 14, 2010
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  14. Gerhard Ebersoehn

    Gerhard Ebersoehn Active Member
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    Ironically, I have had to do with the SAME 'argument' with regard to Hebrews 4 from both sides contra and pro Seventh Day Sabbath observance consistently and persistently. Pro or con, people identify the 'rest' and the 'Sabbath Day' spoken of. It amazes me nobody seems to be able to fathom the 'katapausis' is not the 'sabbatismos' and the 'sabbatismos' not the 'katapausis'.

    Here we SEE how Chowman is an illustration of the pro-Sabbath observance 'side', arguing WRONGLY from the premise the Rest and the Sabbath are the same. And on the other hand, we find here those who from the same wrong premise the Rest and the Sabbath are the same, assume the Sabbath is become obsolete, dissolved and abolished.

     
    #54 Gerhard Ebersoehn, Jul 14, 2010
  15. Gerhard Ebersoehn

    Gerhard Ebersoehn Active Member
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    GE:
    Ja well, Chowman, then I'm afraid I have nothing to tell you. As Jesus says, they are given eyes so that they will not see.
     
    #55 Gerhard Ebersoehn, Jul 14, 2010
  16. Gerhard Ebersoehn

    Gerhard Ebersoehn Active Member
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    Am I mistaken, Chowman, that you are a Seventh-day Adventists?
     
    #56 Gerhard Ebersoehn, Jul 14, 2010
  17. Chowmah

    Chowmah Member

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    You are mistaken. I am not a 7th day adventist.
     
    #57 Chowmah, Jul 15, 2010
  18. Chowmah

    Chowmah Member

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    Am i mistaken

    Rev. 1:10
    I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet,

    You believe the Lords day in above scripture means the 1st day of the week? Sunday?
     
    #58 Chowmah, Jul 15, 2010
  19. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    That is true.

    The saints are to keep the Ten Commandments "But what matters is keeping the Commandments of God" 1Cor 7:19 and the saints of Rev 14:12 are known for keeping the commandments of God.

    At the same time as we see in Romans 3 and in Gal 3 - the lost are condemned by that same Law - because that law defines sin and apart from Christ they have only their own sinful state.

    in Christ,

    Bob
     
    #59 BobRyan, Jul 17, 2010
  20. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    When it comes to GE it is like the old saying "to a hammer every problem is a nail". ;)

    in Christ,

    Bob
     
    #60 BobRyan, Jul 17, 2010
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