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The 10 commandments and being saved

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by Chowmah, Jul 3, 2010.

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  1. Chowmah

    Chowmah Member

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    Just a little somethin extra to show how great the WORD is! There are only 2 places in the KJV where the words “moreover also” can be found

    EZEK.20 [12] MOREOVER ALSO I gave them MY SABBATHS, to be a sign between me and them, that they might know that I am the LORD that sanctify them

    ACTS 2 [26] Therefore did my heart rejoice, and my tongue was glad; MOREOVER ALSO MY FLESH SHALL REST in hope:

    If you will notice in ACTS 2 the WORD says “my flesh shall rest in hope”. Just as GODS 4th commandment tells us to do.
     
  2. DHK

    DHK <b>Moderator</b>

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    It is quite evident that your Scripture references are all OT.
    Check Exodus 31. God makes his covenant with Israel. The Sabbath was a sign of the covenant made between Jehovah and Israel and their generations forever. It was not made for any other people outside the nation of Israel. It was a sign for Israel and Israel only.

    Are you of the nation of Israel? If so, what tribe? No, these OT tribes refer to the nation of Israel and only the nation of Israel. The Sabbath is a sign that the Lord sanctifies his people (the nation of Israel), as he calls them in the OT.
     
  3. Gerhard Ebersoehn

    Gerhard Ebersoehn Active Member
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    GE:
    Chowman, I have been experiencing this VERY thing you here have described for many years now, daily.

    Sorry, I must go now, my brother in law has passed through .....
     
  4. Chowmah

    Chowmah Member

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    Yeah it was before Christ. Not no more. Read Romans 11 and see how we (Christians) are grafted into the tree of the house of Israel

    EPHES. 2 [11] Wherefore remember, that ye being IN TIME PAST GENTILES in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands; [12] That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and STRANGERS FROM THE COVENANTS OF PROMISE, having no hope, and without God in the world: [13] But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ. [14] For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;

    And here in Ephes.2 we find that we were once strangers from Gods covenants. But now in Christ we are not

    ISAIAH 56 [6] Also the sons of THE STRANGER, that join themselves to the Lord, to serve him, and to love the name of the Lord, to be his servants, every one THAT KEEPETH THE SABBATH from polluting it, and TAKETH HOLD OF MY COVENANT; [7] EVEN THEM WILL I BRING TO MY HOLY MOUNTAIN, and make them joyful in my house of prayer: their burnt offerings and their sacrifices shall be accepted upon mine altar; for mine house shall be called an house of prayer for all people

    In Isaiah we find an example of Ephes.2 about us strangers. The Holy mountain spoken of here is the 1000yr period of rest. These are those who are saved that make it to His holy mountain.
     
  5. Chowmah

    Chowmah Member

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    Jeremiah 16:19
    O Lord, my strength, and my fortress, and my refuge in the day of affliction, the Gentiles shall come unto thee from the ends of the earth, and shall say, Surely our fathers have inherited lies, vanity, and things wherein there is no profit.

    This to is an old testament scripture. But it will come to pass
     
  6. Gerhard Ebersoehn

    Gerhard Ebersoehn Active Member
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    He has peace now. I apologise that I mentioned personal matters; the news came so fast.
     
  7. Chowmah

    Chowmah Member

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    Sorry to hear of your brother in law GE. Hang in there
     
  8. Gerhard Ebersoehn

    Gerhard Ebersoehn Active Member
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    GE:
    Chowman, it is unfortunate you did not keep to the Scriptures. Why did you spoil your sober thinking by having forced in your irrelevant thought about some "1000yr period of rest"? The thrust of your whole argument was that salvation is the same in, and for, all dispensations. What would make any future age a "1000yr period of rest"? The only future awaiting the creation of God will be after Jesus will have returned to earth for eternity, to what the Bible calls the New Earth where there will be no sin and no death. So how could it be anything short of the last 'period of rest'?
     
    #108 Gerhard Ebersoehn, Jul 24, 2010
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  9. Gerhard Ebersoehn

    Gerhard Ebersoehn Active Member
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    The '1000 years' is a limited period of time --- it comes to and end; it is only, '1000 years' --- 'metaphorical years', long. From its limited nature, the '1000 years' is the dispensation before the eternal rest of time for the saved upon the New Earth. In other words, the '1000 years', is the Gospel era.

    What a comfort and strength is the knowledge that Christ and his saints shall reign upon thrones until the end and SHALL NEVER BE PUT UNDER by the godless and satanic forces and dominions of this world. Christian, trust the Lord, and LIVE the life of TRIUMPH through Jesus Christ! Although there will be and MUST be times of great anxiety and persecution and whatever, these MUST be only instruments in the hands of God to work out our salvation unto the end and glorification. Because Christ had overcome.

    Islam, for example, and the papacy, for another example of sin and death in the acme of its power, know, that you are but exercises in the way of God's people on the battlefield of final reckoning. Jesus Christ is Victor.
     
    #109 Gerhard Ebersoehn, Jul 24, 2010
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  10. billwald

    billwald New Member

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    >There are only 2 places in the KJV where the words “moreover also” can be found

    A good reason to reject them unless one can demonstrate that the translated Hebrew and Greek words have the exact same meaning.
     
  11. Chowmah

    Chowmah Member

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    Well GE the scriptures ive been posting do not send the catholics, baptist and the rest of the sunday go to meetin people to hell for eternity. There are many people who believe that God would create peoples and stick them in times or places where they would not have heard the name of Jesus and then send them to hell for not believing in Jesus whom they never heard of in the first place. In the scriptures you will find that even people like Ghandi, who have heard of Jesus but followed another religion do have a chance for eternal life. According to the scriptures only those that observe to keep Gods 10 commandments and have the testimony and faith in Jesus will be saved. These people are saved to the kingdom. The 1000 yr period of rest.

    THE 1st RESURRECTION

    1 THES. 4 [15] For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. [16] For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and THE DEAD IN CHRIST SHALL RISE FIRST: [17] Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. [18] Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

    ISAIAH 26 [16] Lord, in trouble have they visited thee, they poured out a prayer when thy chastening was upon them. [17] Like as a woman with child, that draweth near the time of her delivery, is in pain, and crieth out in her pangs; so have we been in thy sight, O Lord. [18] We have been with child, we have been in pain, we have as it were brought forth wind; we have not wrought any deliverance in the earth; neither have the inhabitants of the world fallen. [19] THY DEAD MEN SHALL LIVE, TOGETHER WITH MY DEAD BODY SHALL THEY ARISE. Awake and sing, ye that dwell in dust: for thy dew is as the dew of herbs, and the earth shall cast out the dead. [20] Come, my people, enter thou into thy chambers, and shut thy doors about thee: hide thyself as it were for a little moment, until the indignation be overpast. [21] For, behold, the Lord cometh out of his place to punish the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity: the earth also shall disclose her blood, and shall no more cover her slain.

    REV. 20 [4] And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. [5] But THE REST OF THE DEAD LIVED NOT AGAIN UNTIL THE THOUSAND YEARS WERE FINISHED. This is the first resurrection. [6] Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

    THE 2nd RESURRECTION (The Great White Thrown) After the 1000yrs GE

    JOHN 5 [28]Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, [29] And shall come forth; THEY THAT HAVE DONE GOOD, unto the resurrection of life; and THEY THAT HAVE DONE EVIL, unto the resurrection of damnation.

    Youll notice theres nothing in the above scripture about belief in Christ or God. Also at that time the good and the bad shall come forth.

    REV. 20 [11]And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. [12] And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and THE BOOKS WERE OPENED: and another book was opened, which is THE BOOK OF LIFE: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, ACCORDING TO THEIR WORKS. [13] And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. [14] And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. [15] And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

    Again, no mention of belief in Jesus or God. They are simply judged by their works.

    MATTHEW 19 [16]And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life? [17] And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments. [18] He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, [19] Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

    The works these people will be judged by is that portion of the ten commandments that pertain to your interaction with man. Jesus tells us that, so you can take it to the bank. The man asked Jesus how he should attain eternal life. Jesus did not mention even one of the ten commandments that deal with your interaction with God. Had Jesus been asked, how shall I be saved? Jesus would have given a totally different answer.

    ACTS 24 [14] But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets: [15] And have hope toward God, which they themselves also allow, that there shall be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and unjust.

    Most denominations make the claim only the bad guys are resurrected at the end of the 1000yrs. Scripture above says quite the opposite
     
  12. DHK

    DHK <b>Moderator</b>

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    And so? That has nothing to do with the promise of the Sabbath given to the Jews as a sign between them and Jehovah and their generations forever. Anyone who reads Exodus 31 can understand this very basic precept.
     
  13. Gerhard Ebersoehn

    Gerhard Ebersoehn Active Member
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    Chowman, I haven't read your post properly, but could quickly see that you are evading the issue under consideration. That, and that you evade the issue by throwing wild --- and FALSE --- accusations around. That, of course, makes my refuting of your statements obsolete and unnecessary; you have done it yourself. It's a pity though; I thought I saw something in your thinking that was 'sober' --- a very rare quality in the argumentations of most 'theological' thinking people.

    It also became apparent to me by just having glanced at your post, you propagate apokatastasis. Have you read Barth and Moltmann? Knitter? MANY, so called 'Jesus revolutionists' or 'New Reformationists'? Its great apostles are Americans? I advise you read them to see the futility of 'universal salvation'. It's as old as and older than the Gospel of Christ! You are not 'original', Chowman; you are misled, and you do not even know it.
     
    #113 Gerhard Ebersoehn, Jul 25, 2010
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  14. Gerhard Ebersoehn

    Gerhard Ebersoehn Active Member
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    GE:
    Tell us, DHK, are the Jews going to come together to worship Jehova "forever" on Sabbaths, while Jehova is going to assemble with all others than Jews on Sundays, "forever"?

    The big weakness in your thinking, DHK, is INCONSISTENCY; never mind that it is against the Scriptures and the spirit of the Scriptures.
     
  15. Chowmah

    Chowmah Member

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    Like i said before. Yeah it was before Christ. Not no more. Read Romans 11 and see how we (Christians) are grafted into the tree of the house of Israel and their covenants

    EPHES. 2 [11] Wherefore remember, that ye being IN TIME PAST GENTILES in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands; [12] That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and STRANGERS FROM THE COVENANTS OF PROMISE, having no hope, and without God in the world: [13] But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ. [14] For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;

    And here in Ephes.2 we find that we were once strangers from Gods covenants. But now in Christ we are not

    ISAIAH 56 [6] Also the sons of THE STRANGER, that join themselves to the Lord, to serve him, and to love the name of the Lord, to be his servants, every one THAT KEEPETH THE SABBATH from polluting it, and TAKETH HOLD OF MY COVENANT; [7] EVEN THEM WILL I BRING TO MY HOLY MOUNTAIN, and make them joyful in my house of prayer: their burnt offerings and their sacrifices shall be accepted upon mine altar; for mine house shall be called an house of prayer for all people

    In Isaiah we find an example of Ephes.2 about us strangers. The Holy mountain spoken of here is the 1000yr period of rest. These are those who are saved that make it to His holy mountain.
     
  16. Chowmah

    Chowmah Member

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    Those false accusations you say im throwing around are what i call scriptures. As for your accusation that i propagate apokatastasis. I assure you the only thing i propagate are tomatos and they sure are looking good this year.
     
  17. DHK

    DHK <b>Moderator</b>

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    I don't know what beliefs you hold to but I do know this.
    Believing Gentiles were "grafted in." That does not make them Jews. It does not mean that they are required to keep the law. Do you realize that John the Baptist was the last of the OT prophets, the last prophet under the law? Jesus said he was. Why would that be? Because after Christ the law was fulfilled. Christ fulfilled the law, and then it was done away with. The Sabbath was for the Jews.

    If you think you have to keep the Sabbath, then tell me what tribe are you from: Dan, Ephraim, Levi? Which one? Tell me, I want to know. The Sabbath was given to the twelve tribes of Israel and to their generations forever as a sign of a covenant made between Israel and Jehovah. Unless you were born into one of those tribes it isn't for you.

    The Scripture you quoted out of context has nothing to do with you personally. It is in the future, for a future time. The speak of a Millennial Kingdom, when Christ in person shall rule this earth.
     
  18. Chowmah

    Chowmah Member

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    Aint read a one of them. Have you read the Babe Ruth story?
     
  19. Gerhard Ebersoehn

    Gerhard Ebersoehn Active Member
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    GE:
    Not interested even to find out.
     
  20. Gerhard Ebersoehn

    Gerhard Ebersoehn Active Member
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    GE:
    Chowman says "....GE ..... send the catholics, baptist and the rest of the sunday go to meetin people to hell for eternity." GE: says Chowman accuses falsely. Chowman denies, and claims, "Those false accusations you say im throwing around are what i call scriptures." What "i", Chowman, "call scriptures". To GE, that is not only false, but arrogant ---again.

    Chowman takes a little Scripture here, a little Scripture there, out of context, irrelevant to the issue, clearly speaking of things very far from apokatastasis, and --- again ---, falsely, denies that ".... i propagate apokatastasis."

    All, false. But Choman would like that we believe him. Chowman wants to make a point; but what could be his point if he himself denies what he himself is claiming for Gospel?
     
    #120 Gerhard Ebersoehn, Jul 26, 2010
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