The 1120 Waldensian Confession, wasn't...

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by CarpentersApprentice, Oct 13, 2007.

  1. CarpentersApprentice

    CarpentersApprentice
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    Here's an arcane little sidebar.

    Bottom Line Up Front: The Waldensian Confession of Faith purported to have been written in 1120 was written in the 1500’s, not the 1100’s. The issue is the Books of Samuel. Calling 1st and 2nd Samuel by these names demonstrates that the 1120 Confession was not written in the 1100’s.

    Background.

    The 1120 Confession can be found on the web. Sometimes the original source is not listed, as at A Puritan’s Mind. Sometimes the source is listed as Jones’ Church History, as at the Primitive Baptist site.

    Attribution or not the 1120 Confession of Faith of the Waldenses in The History of the Christian Church by William Jones (1824) is the version almost always cited. What is seldom noted on the modern web sites is that Jones is quoting the Ancient Confession of the Faith of the Waldenses, copied out of manuscripts, bearing date, 1120 found in History of the Old Waldenses Anterior to the Reformation by Jean Paul Perrin (1619).

    And here is where it gets interesting. Look at article 3 of the confession. Jones' leaves out quite a bit of Perrin.

    In Jones we read, “We acknowledge for sacred canonical scriptures the books of the Holy Bible. (Here follows the title of each, exactly conformable to our received canon, but which it is deemed, on that account, quite unnecessary to particularize.)”

    In Perrin we read, “We acknowledge for the holy canonical Scriptures, the books of the Holy Bible. The books of Moses called Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, Deuteronomy, Joshua, Judges, Ruth, 1st Samuel, 2nd of Samuel, 1st of Kings, 2nd Kings, 1st Chronicles, 2nd Chronicles, Ezra, Nehemiah, Esther, Job, Psalms, The Proverbs of Solomon, Ecclesiastes or The Preacher, the Song of Solomon, the Prophecies of Isaiah, and Jeremiah, The Lamentations of Jeremiah. Ezekiel, Daniel, Hosea, Joel, Amos, Obadiah, Jonah, Micah, Nahum, Habakkuk, Zephaniah, Zechariah, Malachi…”

    Note how Perrin refers to Samuel. Originally the books of Samuel and Kings constituted one unit, but because of their length were divided into two. The Book of Samuel is the eighth book of the Hebrew Bible. The Septuagint (LXX, ca. 200 BC) divided the books again, titling the resulting parts First and Second Kingdoms (I and II Samuel), followed by Third and Fourth Kingdoms (I and II Kings). In the later Vulgate (ca. 400 AD) “Kingdoms” became “Kings.” Hebrew manuscripts continued to treat Samuel as one book until the introduction of the printed Bible in the 16th century (the Bomberg Bible of 1517), when the division into I and II Samuel was accepted.

    Thus, the earliest compilations of the Bible listed I & II Samuel and I & II Kings together as I, II, III, and IV Kings. Following the LXX and the Vulgate, Wycliffe’s Bible (ca. 1380) and the Gutenberg Bible (ca. 1455) retained the book titles of First and Second Kings for the Book of Samuel. If the 1120 Confession had actually been written in 1120 the listing of 1st and 2nd Samuel would have been written as 1st and 2nd Kings. And the listing of 1st and 2nd Kings would have been written as 3rd and 4th Kings.

    In short, the date of 1120 on the confession is a canard. Listing the book of Samuel as 1st and 2nd Samuel, instead of 1st and 2nd Kings - as the confession does in article 3 - belies the 1120 date of the document. This confession was not written in the 12th century. This confession was written no earlier that the late 15th century, almost 400 years after the date of the document.

    Your thoughts?

    CA
     
    #1 CarpentersApprentice, Oct 13, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 13, 2007
  2. Matt Black

    Matt Black
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    Bzzzt! We have a winner, ladies and gentlemen!
     
  3. CarpentersApprentice

    CarpentersApprentice
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    Aside from the spurious date, article 3 has something else that should give Baptists' pause before citing this as an historical proof of early like-minded believers...

    "Here follow the books apochryphal, which are not received of the Hebrews: but we read them, as saith Hierem in his prologue to the proverbs, for the instruction of the people, not to confirm the authority of the doctrine of the church:—2nd Esdras, 3d Esdras, Tobit, Judith, Wisdom, Ecclesiasticus, Baruch, with the epistle of Jeremiah, Esther from the tenth chapter to the end, the Song of the Three Children in the Furnace, the History of Susanna, the History of the Dragon, 1 Maccabees, 2 Массаbees, 3 Maccabees.

    I have never heard a Baptist pastor quote from these books "for the instruction of the people."

    CA
     
  4. Gerhard Ebersoehn

    Gerhard Ebersoehn
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    I have learned a nice new word, 'canard'. I'm fascinated by words! Thanks!
     
  5. Gerhard Ebersoehn

    Gerhard Ebersoehn
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    Oops, 'arcane'! I learn very slowly, but once made wise, never forget!
     
  6. CarpentersApprentice

    CarpentersApprentice
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    I wish I could say the same. (I learn slow too, but wisdom does not always follow or stay with me. It seems I must learn the same lessons over and over.)

    :)

    CA
     

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