I have been reading here on the BB many interesting posts on the Cal vs. non-Cal position. Perhaps I have it wrong but it seems to me that people simply are looking at God's eternal redemptive purpose from different perspectives. One side is God's outworking of his decree's in the life of his people and the other is that people are responsible for their choices, accountable to the Gospel and culpible for thier sin, For example depending if its night or day BOTH are true: 1.) the sky is blue 2.) the sky is black Can both be true? YES. Is predestination and God's control over all things true? YES! Will the events in Revelation happen with absolute certaintly no matter how mankind chooses and actually all of man kinds free will choices will in fact fulfill God's eternal redemptive purpose, though man chose freely to do as he will. From our reality it is clear we MUST turn to God and get saved. We can discuss man's part and God's converting Grace but the FACT is, man runs from God unless he is called and drawn from the preaching of the Gospel so we as Christians have a duty and obligation to tell all people everywhere that the FREE Grace of God is available to ALL. We must propogate the Gospel. Are they God's elect? We don't know and frankly it is really not our concern HOW God saves, or WHY He saves the fact is GOD SAVES SINNERS!! The sovereignty of God and the free will of man. It reminds me of a quarter. One side is heads (sovereignty) and the other side tails (human responsibility). You know if you grind one side completely off, it is still legal tender, because more than 50% is still "valid". Like Christians who lob mortar shells at one another on this issue. Both still saved but without the ever needed "other side of the coin". What binds both sides togther of a quarter to make it legal? The copper in the middle. What binds bother sides of this issue - FAITH. BOTH sides agree that faith is essential in salvation whether you believe it is the innate faith in man that is the "light" that lights all men (though man has perverted his God awareness into a lie) or you beleive it is a "gift" from God the fact is faith is essential. Here we can rest: preach the Gospel, witness to the lost, live a life to Christian precepts, don't hide the glorious light of the Gospel in our lives, tell ALL the lost that God saves sinners and keep our sight heavenly and not earthly Jesus came to save them that are lost - so let' tell the lost that Jesus saves sinners by free and mertiless GRACE. Am I missing something here? IS God sovereign and man responsible BOTH taught in the Bible?