The $64,000 question

Discussion in 'Free-For-All Archives' started by trying2understand, Mar 22, 2004.

  1. trying2understand

    trying2understand
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    How do you know that your interpretation of Scripture and your beliefs are right when every reason that you list is also given by others who believe very differently from you?

    The reasons I've heard so far:

    1) I follow the Bible
    2) I compare Scripture to Scripture
    3) The Holy Spirit guides me
    4) I've studied the Bible for a long time
    5) Other churches agree with me

    So how do you know that you are right?
     
  2. Yelsew2

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    Here's another,

    "I'm right! Don't confuse me with your theories!"

    and Another,

    "If it ain't in the bible, it ain't true!"
     
  3. Brother Adam

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    I knew it!

    2+2 does not equal 4!

    And those potlucks! Those sinful potlucks! Wait until I get ahold of my pastor!

    And the pews in our church? Not to mention the Christian flag! wow. Talk about heresy!
     
  4. JustAsIAm

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    I KNEW it!!! I always thought there was something subversive about potlucks. All those people, all that food, it just can't be right!

    AND, while we are at it, what about VBS? Recruiting all of those innocent children!! ;) ;)
     
  5. Yelsew2

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    Now Wait just a minute here, Potlucks are the regularly scheduled baking contests that enables us to keep our skills honed to a fine edge.

    Not to mention all the gossip we get caught up on!
     
  6. trying2understand

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    Bumped

    Waiting for for a post that addresses the question of the thread.
     
  7. cotton

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    Good question!! I believe your observation is exactly right. This very question is what eventually led me away from the Baptist church (that and the fact that though Baptists usually say they follow Scripture, its more correct to say they follow their interpretation.

    Point #5 above I suppose could be taken as tradition? When church tradition (Protestant/Baptist/Catholic) contradicts God's word, it is incorrect.

    Point #4 is good, but only if the foundations of the student are "grounded". If the foundation is 'on shifting sand' then the theology is 'cracked'.

    Point #3. I've never heard anyone say that they weren't led by the Holy Spirit! But how can to men say they are 'led by the Spirit' and have totally contradictory doctrines (ie. differing on tongues?).

    Points 1 and 2 I believe, go together. Yet still if the foundational belief is from different vantage points, then interpretation of scripture will vary. And this is why we have so much fun "discussing"!

    One interesting observation: the Jewish people LOVE to debate scripture and interpretation!! And many times their 'discussions' (to outsiders) look like heated arguments. I mean we are passionate about what is near and dear to us, right? But, after the smoke clears, they still consider each other as brothers.

    Cotton
     
  8. Helen

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    1-4 works fine. Several translations and a couple of good concordances are a major help, too.

    James tells us to ask for wisdom. Doing that before reading Bible is also a help (that is an understatement...)
     
  9. trying2understand

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    1-4 works fine?

    Then why is there such disagreement between groups all claiming to use 1-4?

    Opposite sides of the interpretation, both claiming to follow the Bible.

    Both claiming to compare Scripture to Scripture.

    Both claiming the Holy Spirit guides them.

    Both claiming to having studied the Bible for a long time.

    How do any of the above prove that you are right while someone else claiming the same proofs are wrong?

    None of the proofs that I listed hold up.

    The question remains.

    How do you know that your interpretation of Scripture is correct?
     
  10. Me2

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    I have a personal relationship with Jesus Christ.

    When we are given his spirit. we also receive his mind. We are allowed to peer into the vast knowledge of Christ through revelations. pictures. ideas.

    We use the bible to relate spirit idea or give corresponding words to these revelations. the bible is not words only it is ideas of spirit written by the Holy spirit.

    How do we know of its truth?.. it validates itself. every idea interlocks with another and doesnt violate one idea overagainst another.

    man doesnt receive his word firsts and then the revelation...(well he does but this is initially being saved. we hold wisdom by faith until we receive the revelation (the spirit) afterwards the process reverses and we receive revelation first and then the word secondly to understand the revelation.

    without the revelation first or the picture from the mind of christ. we are guessing what words mean from a book of words that we are reading without any corresponding proof. we are imagining what Gods words mean...this is proof of the thought processes of a carnal christian

    heres is "the" deciding factor between believers...

    2Jo 1:7 For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.

    that is in your flesh. the spirit of our LORD Jesus Chrsit HAS COME into OUR FLESH. telltale sign of the passing of the carnal child to a spirit young man.
     
  11. BobRyan

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    #1. There are over 200 different denominations of which the RCC is merely one among many. Each Christian should then assume that their statistical chances of being in the "right one" are low.

    #2. EAch group "could say" that instead of the Bible they each listen to their own magesterium say "we are right because we always say we are right".

    #3. If you are Mormon you "could" look at your church's history and see some outrageous things in the past. But then the same thing is true if you are RC.

    #4. If you were a Jew living at the time of Christ - how would you "know not to listen to your own magesterium as it excommunicated the carpenter from Nazareth"?

    In the end it is trusting the John 16 and 1John 2 promise of the Holy Spirit "guiding us into all truth" combined with objective compelling models of "exegesis" in the case of each text and looking at the big picture for each doctrine.

    What you "don't have" is a non-Bible rule like "go with the guys that wear green hats - they are always doctrinally correct".

    In Christ,

    Bob
     
  12. trying2understand

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    ME2, your answer appears to be 3) "The Holy Spirit guides me."

    Those who disagree with your interpretations and beliefs no doubt also believe that they are guided by the Holy Spirit.

    Why would the same Holy Spirit guide people to conflicting beliefs?

    Proof #3 does not stand.
     
  13. trying2understand

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    Bob, please try to stay with the thread.

    The question is how do "you" know that you are correct?

    Your answer appears to be 1, 2, & 3.

    Others who believe very very differently from you make the same claims and arguements as proof for why they are correct.

    The five arguements which I posted do not hold up.

    How do you know that your interpretations and beliefs are correct?
     
  14. BobRyan

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    Read my post - it addresses your supposition that these points don't work.

    The "details" again.

    In Christ,

    Bob
     
  15. trying2understand

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    I did read it.

    You said, "In the end it is trusting the John 16 and 1John 2 promise of the Holy Spirit "guiding us into all truth" combined with objective compelling models of "exegesis" in the case of each text and looking at the big picture for each doctrine."

    In other words, your answer appears to be 1, 2, & 3.

    Others who believe very very differently from you make the same claims and arguements as proof for why they are correct.

    The five arguements which I posted do not hold up.

    So, Bob, how do you know that your interpretations and beliefs are correct?
     
  16. Me2

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    Trying2understand,

    1Co 4:4 For I know nothing by myself; yet am I not hereby justified: but he that judgeth me is the Lord.
    1Co 4:5 Therefore judge nothing before the time, until the Lord come, who both will bring to light the hidden things of darkness, and will make manifest the counsels of the hearts: and then shall every man have praise of God.

    Im not judging anothers conclusion. nor am I defending my interpretations from the opposition of another. I witness what I see and hear and allow you to observe. It is the lord that covers and uncovers and the lord that judges. without the spirit of Christ within man. He knows nothing. any person who has the spirit of God has the capability to know everything. as some here have posted. if You lack ask of God so that he may fulfill your needs.

    1Jo 5:9 If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater: for this is the witness of God which he hath testified of his Son.
    1Jo 5:10 He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son.

    The judge is the Son. and the son is the witness of the truth in man. this is the contained within your list.

    #3 the Holy Spirit Guides me.

    the holy Spirit doesnt Guide men into misconceptions.
    It is the misconceptions of man believing the holy spirit is guiding them. when it is their own carnal imaginations that are guiding them.
     
  17. trying2understand

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    Then how do you know that the Holy Spirit is guiding you?

    How do you know that your interpretations and beliefs are not your own misconceptions?
     
  18. Me2

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    Truth is going to be resisted by the opposition.

    Heb 12:5 And ye have forgotten the exhortation which speaketh unto you as unto children, My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked of him:
    Heb 12:6 For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.
    Heb 12:7 If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?
    Heb 12:8 But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.

    Chastisements come in the form of persecution

    Persecution is against truth. against the name's sake. the nature that the truth can only describe.

    It is everymans determination to seek the truth of God. The only truth that comes with its own persecution.

    Joh 15:18 If the world hate you, ye know that it hated me before [it hated] you.
    Joh 15:19 If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.

    there are two main questions which all men seek of God, yet few find today. Is God Sovereign? and Is God Love?.

    for this comes persecutions mentioned of God when your interpretations go against others interpretations.
     
  19. trying2understand

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    Thank you for entering into this discussion. [​IMG]

    The problem with that is with two sides in disagreement, both are holding beliefs that are being resisited by oppostion, from each other.

    But I must say, you are thinking about this, aren't you. [​IMG]
     
  20. trying2understand

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    I'm curious as to why ME2 is the only one to even try to offer an answer.

    So many on this board are quick to say who is not saved.

    So many on this board are quick to call another a heretic.

    If you can't say how you know that your interpretations and beliefs are correct without using an arguement that can equally apply to the opposing position...

    How do you know that you are right?
     

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