The _______ is the power of God unto Salvation?

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Skandelon, Sep 24, 2011.

  1. Skandelon

    Skandelon
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    I saw this question in a blog and wanted to pose it here for consideration:

    "It seems to me that the inevitable conclusion of Calvinism is that due to the deadness of man in sin, that the living and active, faith-producing Gospel has absolutely no [positive] impact upon the unregenerate heart, unless it is accompanied by an Irresistible Grace. If so, then why do we talk about the dynamite power of the living and active Gospel? Why don't we instead talk about the dynamite power of the living and active Irresistible Grace, without which, the Gospel is otherwise dead and dormant?"
     
  2. canadyjd

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    I would say that "due to the deadness of man in sin, that the....gospel has no salvific impact on the unregenerate heart unless it is accompanied by the active intervention of God, Holy Spirit.

    I can then speak of the dynamic power of Almighty God in bringing a person who is dead in trespasses and sin into a right relationship with Himself.

    peace to you:praying:
     
  3. Tom Bryant

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    I would say that both sides in this discussion believe that the Gospel is the power of God unto salvation. I am not a Calvinist, but this kind of misstatement of what they believe is not helpful or right.
     
  4. Skandelon

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    Would you agree that the gospel IS a work of the Holy Spirit, in that it was produced by the Holy Spirit, preserved by the Holy Spirit, carried by the Holy Spirit, and proclaimed by people indwelled by the Holy Spirit?

    If so, why would you presume that the powerful work of the Holy Spirit in bringing the gospel is insufficient and thus must be accompanied by yet another working of the Holy Spirit? Especially considering that the scriptures speak of the gospel's power in numerous places, but the power of this so-called "effectual/inward/irresistible" calling is never expounded upon but only induced through a few vague proof texts?
     
  5. Skandelon

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    I agree that they make that claim, but in reality, do you deny that the power really rest in the so-called "irresistible grace" which either "accompanies" or "precedes" the Gospel call?
     
  6. canadyjd

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    Does the Holy Spirit convict the world concerning sin? Does the Holy Spirit convict the world concerning righteousness? Does the Holy Spirit convict the world of Judgement? Does the Holy Spirit guide you into all the truth?

    Why are you putting God, Holy Spirit at odds with God's Word? Why do you deny what is clearly taught in scripture (not a "few vague proof texts"), that both are involved in bringing a person to salvation?

    peace to you:praying:
     
  7. Tom Bryant

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    Since I am not a Calvinist, I can't answer for them. But I would imagine they would say that all of those items make up the Gospel. I would disagree, but we all preach the same Gospel. We all preach Jesus whom to know is life eternal. We all preach that He is the only name. We disagree about the mechanics. I think they're wrong. But to act as if they don't believe that the Gospel is the power of God is tantamount to stating they have another Gospel and that is incorrect.
     
  8. Skandelon

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    I think you have misunderstood my intent. I'm not questioning WHAT they think the gospel IS, I questioning WHAT they believe the gospel DOES. See the difference?

    I affirm that they believe in the same gospel as we do, I just take issue with the attempt to claim that it accomplishes the same thing or has the same power.

    I'd love to hear if they would agree with your statement regarding all "those items making up the gospel," because I'd have a follow-up question for them.
     
  9. Winman

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    Jesus compared the word of God to a seed. A seed already has life in it, but it must be planted in soil to grow.

    In the parable of the sower, the same seed was sown on four different soils. The way side was hard and the seed could not penetrate and take root. The good soil was soft and received (faith) the seed, it took root, grew and produced fruit.

    Jesus also explained that the condition of these soils was the responsibility of the hearer.

    Lk 8:18 Take heed therefore how ye hear: for whosoever hath, to him shall be given; and whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken even that which he seemeth to have.

    The problem is not that the gospel does not have power, the problem is that some hearers do not receive the power by faith.
     
  10. Skandelon

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    Great word Winman, thanks!
     
  11. JesusFan

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    #11 JesusFan, Sep 26, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 26, 2011
  12. Skandelon

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  13. JesusFan

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