The Abomination of Desolation

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by The Biblicist, Mar 26, 2015.

  1. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist
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    What specific passage in the book of Daniel do you believe Christ is alluding to in Matthew 24:15?

    1. Dan. 9:27
    2. Dan. 11:31
    3. Dan. 12:11
    4. Dan. ???

    What do you believe the Abomination of Desolation is? Please provide scripture reference in Daniel to support your interpretation.

    What do you believe to "stand in the holy place" refers to? Please give scripture reference in Daniel to support your definition.
     
  2. Yeshua1

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    Wasn't jesus saying to them and to us that the coming Antichrsit will be the One to go into the temple, and to proclaim himself as the messiah?
     
  3. tyndale1946

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    Well John Gill was a better scholar then I will ever be... Here's what Gill says:

    Roman army is designed; see ( Luke 21:20 ) which was "the wing", or "army of abominations making desolate", ( Daniel 9:27 ) . Armies are called wings, ( Isaiah 8:8 ) and the Roman armies were desolating ones to the Jews, and to whom they were an abomination; not only because they consisted of Heathen men, and uncircumcised persons, but chiefly because of the images of their gods, which were upon their ensigns: for images and idols were always an abomination to them; so the "filthiness" which Hezekiah ordered to be carried out of the holy place, ( 2 Chronicles 29:5 ) is by the Targum called, "an abomination"; and this, by the Jewish writers F23, is said to be an idol, which Ahaz had placed upon the altar; and such was the abomination of desolation, which Antiochus caused to be set upon the altar:
    ``Now the fifteenth day of the month Casleu, in the hundred forty and fifth year, they set up the abomination of desolation upon the altar, and builded idol altars throughout the cities of Juda on every side;'' (1 Maccabees 1:54)​
    And so the Talmudic writers, by the abomination that makes desolate, in ( Daniel 12:11 ) ( 9:27 ) to which Christ here refers, understand an image, which they say F24 one Apostomus, a Grecian general, who burnt their law, set up in the temple. Now our Lord observes, that when they should see the Roman armies encompassing Jerusalem, with their ensigns flying, and these abominations on them, they might conclude its desolation was near at hand; and he does not so much mean his apostles, who would be most of them dead, or in other countries, when this would come to pass; but any of his disciples and followers, or any persons whatever, by whom should be seen this desolating abomination, spoken of by Daniel the prophet:
    not in ( Daniel 11:31 ) which is spoken of the abomination in the times of Antiochus; but either in ( Daniel 12:11 ) or rather in ( Daniel 9:27 ) since this desolating abomination is that, which should follow the cutting off of the Messiah, and the ceasing of the daily sacrifice. It is to be observed, that Daniel is here called a prophet, contrary to what the Jewish writers say F25, who deny him to be one; though one of F26 no inconsiderable note among them affirms, that he attained to the end , "of the prophetic border", or the ultimate degree of prophecy: when therefore this that Daniel, under a spirit of prophecy, spoke of should be seen,

    standing in the holy place;
    near the walls, and round about the holy city Jerusalem, so called from the sanctuary and worship of God in it; and which, in process of time, stood in the midst of it, and in the holy temple, and destroyed both; thenwhoso readeth, let him understand:
    that is, whoever then reads the prophecy of Daniel; will easily understand the meaning of it, and will see and know for certain, that now it is accomplished; and will consider how to escape the desolating judgment, unless he is given up to a judicial blindness and hardness of heart; which was the case of the greater part of the nation.... That is exactly the way I see it!.... Brother Glen
     
  4. Yeshua1

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    Cannot though be the event of AD 70, as general titus did burn down the temple and city, but never proclaimed himself as being messiah!
     
  5. tyndale1946

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    I disagree then again lets see what the brother who opened the original post has to say... Brother Glen
     
  6. beameup

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    Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
    Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

    2 Thessalonians 2:3-4
     
  7. kyredneck

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    ....don't need Daniel, the corollary from the synoptics clearly defines it:

    15 When therefore ye see the abomination of desolation, which was spoken of through Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place (let him that readeth understand),
    16 then let them that are in Judaea flee unto the mountains:
    34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all these things be accomplished. Mt 24

    14 But when ye see the abomination of desolation standing where he ought not (let him that readeth understand), then let them that are in Judaea flee unto the mountains:
    30 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, until all these things be accomplished. Mk 13

    20 But when ye see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that her desolation is at hand.
    21 Then let them that are in Judaea flee unto the mountains; and let them that are in the midst of her depart out; and let not them that are in the country enter therein.
    32 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all things be accomplished. Lk 21



    When You See Jerusalem Surrounded.....
     
    #7 kyredneck, Apr 6, 2015
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  8. revmwc

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    In Revelation during the Tribulation Jerusalem is surrounded and the Beast has the False Prophet (anti-christ) set up hi image in the temple in Jerusalem. That generation which is in Israel will flee into the mountains. The abomination that maketh desolate is the image of the beast in Revelation.

    Very simple! All the things seen happening in Revelation are fulfillment of Old Testament prophecy and will be literally fulfilled just as all Old Testament prophecy was fulfilled literally concerning Christ. Because God in His unconditional Covenant with Abraham promised Israel an everlasting Kingdom and full possession of the Land and they have never fully possessed the Land as specified by god.
     
  9. kyredneck

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    No, the corollary passages I provided shows clearly that it's the armies that laid waste to Jerusalem.

    The Christians of 'that generation' DID indeed flee into the mountains to Pella, i.e., prophecy fulfilled.

    No, the corollary passages I provided shows clearly that it's the armies that laid waste to Jerusalem.

    There's nothing simple about the heresy of Dispensationalism; it's the probably the most contradictory to scripture and convoluted system ever devised by man.

    Literally? As in a literal red dragon with seven literal heads with a literal whore literally riding his back chasing after a woman clothed literally with the sun, moon, and stars?

    The Revelation of Yeshua The Messiah, which God gave to him, to show his Servants what had been given to soon occur, and he symbolized it when he sent by his Angel to his Servant Yohannan. Rev 1:1 Aramaic version

    The land promises are a long done deal from ancient times under the Old Covenant, i.e., prophecy fulfilled:

    43 So Jehovah gave unto Israel all the land which he sware to give unto their fathers; and they possessed it, and dwelt therein.
    44 And Jehovah gave them rest round about, according to all that he sware unto their fathers: and there stood not a man of all their enemies before them; Jehovah delivered all their enemies into their hand.
    45 There failed not aught of any good thing which Jehovah had spoken unto the house of Israel; all came to pass. Josh 21

    And, behold, this day I am going the way of all the earth: and ye know in all your hearts and in all your souls, that not one thing hath failed of all the good things which Jehovah your God spake concerning you; all are come to pass unto you, not one thing hath failed thereof. Josh 23:14
     
  10. revmwc

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    One who was in the generation of Jesus' time saw the abomination of desolation set up, and he recorded it in prophetic form for us, that was John. The problem those who see the A.D. 70 destruction of Jerusalem as the return of Christ have is the 1000 year Kingdom of Christ. This must be explained and Scripture is clear that it is a literal Kingdom. Prior to that the Abomination that maketh desolate was to occur, first there had to be 1290 days from the ceasing of the sacrifice until the abomination that maketh desolate to occur. We have no recorded number of days before the ceasing of the Sacrifice until the destruction of Jerusalem. There was no abomination of desoaltion set up in the temple in A.D. 70 instead the temple was totally destroyed. Daniel 12:11 and at the end of those days Israel would stand in peace Daniel 12:13, Israel has yet to stand in peace. In Revelation 13 the false messiah the second beast that comes out of the Earth (Israel) verse 11 has great powers even to call fire down from heaven. He causes the image of the Beast to be constructed and put in its place. Where will its place be? If as this says he is the false Messiah who comes out of the earth which is a reference to the nation Israel. Verse 11 then it would be placed in the Temple in Israel. We see that when the city feel in Revelation and was called Babylon, that Christ returned to the earth in Revelation 19 & 20. For 1000 years satan was bound while the Kingdom with Christ reigning was taking place on earth. A time of Peace with no war. There has been nothing but war since A.D. 70 so Christ did not return and did not set up His Kingdom. After the 1000 years of christ Kingdom, satan and death and hell are cast into the Lake of fire and New Jerusalem comes and rest upon the Newly Renovated earth. Revelation 20 and 21. So if Christ returned and the abomination that maketh desolate occurred then. That would mean we are all now living in the New Jersalem in peace, that from A.D. 70 until A.D 1070 the lion laid down with the lamb, the child led them as Isaiah prophesied and the earth was renovated by fire. None of which has occurred but is yet to occur as Revelation predicts it will.
     
  11. kyredneck

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    Biblical 'second coming':

    40 When therefore the lord of the vineyard shall come, what will he do unto those husbandmen?
    41 They say unto him, He will miserably destroy those miserable men, and will let out the vineyard unto other husbandmen, who shall render him the fruits in their seasons.
    42 Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, The same was made the head of the corner; This was from the Lord, And it is marvelous in our eyes?
    43 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken away from you, and shall be given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.
    44 And he that falleth on this stone shall be broken to pieces: but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will scatter him as dust.
    45 And when the chief priests and the Pharisees heard his parables, they perceived that he spake of them. Mt 21

    Occurred already. Done. Completed. Past. Over with. Finished.

    When He says 'shortly come to pass', and, 'I come quickly', and, 'the time is at hand', He means it:

    The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show unto his servants, even the things which must shortly come to pass: and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John; who bare witness of the word of God, and of the testimony of Jesus Christ, even of all things that he saw. Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of the prophecy, and keep the things that are written therein: for the time is at hand. Rev 1:1-3

    I come quickly: hold fast that which thou hast, that no one take thy crown. Rev 3:11

    And behold, I come quickly. Blessed is he that keepeth the words of the prophecy of this book.,,,,,,,,,, And he saith unto me, Seal not up the words of the prophecy of this book; for the time is at hand.,,,,,,,, Behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to render to each man according as his work is.,,,,,,,,,,,,,, He who testifieth these things saith, Yea: I come quickly. Amen: come, Lord Jesus. Rev 22:7,10,12,20

    ???? My Bibles says it's a spiritual kingdom not of this world that can neither be seen with the eye nor touched with the hand.
     
    #11 kyredneck, Apr 6, 2015
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  12. revmwc

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    Well no matter Spitirual or literal it would have ended in A.D. 1070 and the earth renovated and New Jerusalem would have come to rest and we would be in eternity now according to Revelation 20. So you are saying we are in the New Jerusalem as Revelation 20 and 21 state the Kingdom would last 1000 years. We are now in 2015 and the calender is off some but not over 100 years. We would be 945 years past the 1000 year reign of Christ Kingdom and therefore satan and death and hell would have been cast into the lake of fire. the Earth renovated and New Jerusalem resting upon the Earth with God and Christ reigning. They would be the light and we have no more need of sun and moon. That is what Revelation 20-22 state will occur after the 1000 year reign of Christ. Last time I looked there was still a Sun, Moon and stars and there is no throne room of god with a River flowing from it and a tree of life in the midst for food and the healing of nations. Revelation is very clear that is going to occur and the kingdom was to last 1000 years.

    However, as a literal Kingdom we see, Matthew 19:28 "28 And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel." Jesus taught that His Kingdom would be a Kingdom that had the His followers ruling over Israel. Not Spiritual Israel but literal Israel, when has Jesus ruled literally over Israel? The disciples understood it as a literal Kingdom, because we see in Matthew 20:20-22, that James and John's mother came to Jesus to request that they sit upon literal thrones, Jesus didn't say it is a spiritual Kingdom instead we see, "Then came to him the mother of Zebedees children with her sons, worshipping him, and desiring a certain thing of him. 21 And he said unto her, What wilt thou? She saith unto him, Grant that these my two sons may sit, the one on thy right hand, and the other on the left, in thy kingdom. 22 But Jesus answered and said, Ye know not what ye ask. Are ye able to drink of the cup that I shall drink of, and to be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with? They say unto him, We are able." They would need to suffer as He suffered and yet still the Father would determine who sat upon those thrones.

    According to Isaiah 9:6-8 it would be a literal Kingdom with the Christ seated on the Throne of David, 6"For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. 7 Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the Lord of hosts will perform this. 8 The Lord sent a word into Jacob, and it hath lighted upon Israel." What Isaiah describes is exactly like what Revelation says, there will be peace in that Kingdom because satan is not in it to influence people and neither are the demon angels.
    Old and New Testament and even Jesus' own teaching shows it as literal so what Bible are you reading that shows it to be a spiritual Kingdom?
     

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