The Angel With The Everlasting Gospel!

Discussion in '2003 Archive' started by tyndale1946, Apr 27, 2003.

  1. tyndale1946

    tyndale1946
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    Revelation 14:[6] And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,

    [7] Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.

    Two questions among many... Who is the angel?... What is the everlasting gospel?... Comments and thoughts????... Brother Glen [​IMG] & [​IMG] Sister Charlotte [​IMG]
     
  2. BobRyan

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    There is an entire denomination built around that one.

    Bob
     
  3. Eladar

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    I thought about Mormons too, but I wouldn't call them a denomination. Perhaps a demon-ation. ;)
     
  4. BobRyan

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    The 3 angels of Rev 14 are three distinct time-sensitive messages given at (near) the end of time.

    The first Angel proclaims the Gospel - and highlights THAT PART of the Gospel that deals with Judgment. He points out that the exact hour of judgment has finally arrived. (while both good and evil people are still on earth as we see from the text).

    Paul mentions this time as being future to his day ( in Romans 2) and ALSO declares that it is part of his gospel message.

    The first angels message is not only focused on annoucning the fact that the judgment hour has come (part of his Gospel message), it ALSO emphasizes worship to the creator. Worship that focuses "specifically" on God's role as creator usinig the unique language of the 4th commandment (which defines a memorial of God's creative act).

    The message of the 2nd Angel indicates a subsequent event - "the response" of Babylon to the message of the first Angel.

    These messages are to the end of the world what Noah's message was to the people of his day. 2Peter 3 points out the two destructions share parrallel attributes as does Christ in Matt 24.

    In Christ,

    Bob
     
  5. BobRyan

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    I would be very surprised to find out that the Mormons based anything central to their doctrines on Rev 14. What did you find out?

    In Christ,

    Bob
     
  6. Eladar

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    It was a reference to the angel that Mormons build their beliefs around.
     
  7. BobRyan

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    The angel Moroni is the one that the Mormons build their faith around. The THREE angels of Rev 14 are not "Moroni" - at least I have never seen a case made for that in the Mormon literature they handed out in my neighborhood.

    In Christ,

    Bob
     
  8. BobRyan

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    The Judgment scene predicted by Paul in Romans 2 and by the first of the 3 Angels in Rev 14:7 is described vividly in Daniel 7:8-10

    God seems to put a lot of weight on that end-of-time event prior to the fall of Babylon - while both saint and sinner are still on the earth.

    The entire Judgment concept is a very "Arminian" theme when you see the "corporate" nature of the judgment as God describes it in Daniel 7:8-10.

    God is infinite in knowledge as well as power and He already knows all things - no books needed, no court needed, no time needed, no judgment needed.

    Yet the details God gives show a model of a "free will" system where His decisions are SHOWN to be just and merciful before Myriads and Myriads of watchers. His decisions are seen to be consistent with the Laws He sovereignly establishes for the Universe. (Kinda reminds you of Job 1 and 2).

    The pronouncement of the Angel in Rev 19 stating that God's judgment are "Holy Just and true" is consistent with that theme - just as we saw it in Romans 3:1-4.

    As Daniel 7 says when the Father comes into the court room where the myriads and myriads are waiting - "The court sat and the books were opened". Then later in the chapter we find that "Judgment was passed IN FAVOR of the saints" Daniel 7:21-22.

    So when Paul predicts this as a "future event" Romans 2:13-15 and John shows the event to occur in the time line of Rev 14:7-10 prior to the return of Christ, while both good and evil on the earth - we see that there is some kind of master plan that God is implementing and things are going according to His timeline not ours.

    In Christ,

    Bob

    [ April 27, 2003, 11:02 PM: Message edited by: BobRyan ]
     
  9. tyndale1946

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    First of all let me clarify something here and now... I didn't bring up this scripture to talk about the Mormons and their belief. That thought never crossed my mind and I really don't care... I know enough about the Mormons.

    I'm the moderator of the C/A Debate Forum not the lets talk about the Mormons Forum... That falls under the Other Religions Forum. To many times Men have taken doctrine or scripture out of context and build a belief on it to suit their own evil based desires and the evil intents of their minds and hearts... Robbing God of his deserved honor and glory and his order... Brother Glen [​IMG] & [​IMG] Sister Charlotte [​IMG]
     
  10. Frogman

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    But the mormons have elders, I met two of them, :D and one of them experienced salvation because of the witness of the Holy Spirit he obviously was of the elect and by God's Will made his way to my home, praise God for His Ways which are past finding out. [​IMG]

    As far as the topic of the thread, I am not studied enough on this topic to present anything; but I believe, off-hand this to be speaking toward the House of Israel :rolleyes: Like the old puritan who increased the interest in his scribblings during a debate more than his or his opponents answers, I must cry "More Light Lord, More Light" [​IMG]

    Bro.Dallas
     
  11. Primitive Baptist

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    "And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people," (Rev. 14:6)

    This is an allusion to what Jesus told His diciples.

    "And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come." (Matt. 24:14)

    Jesus told His disciples that the Gospel would be preached in all the world (Gr. oikoumene) before the end of the age (Matt. 28:20). The age was to come to an end at the destruction of Jerusalem, and the Scriptures confirm that the Gospel was preached in accordance with the words of our Lord (Col. 1:6, 23).
     
  12. Ray Berrian

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    The Christian Gospel started with Jesus on the Cross when the 'vail was torn in two' and will end with the rapture of the church into Heaven. [Matt. 11:5; Mark 13:10; Luke 4:18; Acts 8:25; Romans 1:15; I Cor. 1:17]

    When we read Revelation 14:6 John speaks of the ' . . . angel flying in the midst of Heaven, preaching the everlasting Gospel to those on the earth . . . {to all peoples}. The idea of an 'everlasting Gospel' most strongly points to an era of change in God's Divine program for people. The church has gone to Heaven and the Great Tribulation is in progress. God opens the Seals, the Vials are poured out, the various Trumpets are sounded, pointing to God's judgments that are yet to be meted out to those sinners who will have been left behind in the world. While the church is being evaluated, judged as to rewards in Heaven for seven years, the world system will be judged for seven unthinkable years before the Second Coming of Christ when He comes back with His church to set up His thousand year Theocracy on this earth. [Rev. 20:2 e; 20:3 e; 20:4 j; 20:6 d; 20:7a] Note the five references to His designated reign called the Millinimum.

    Revelation 14:7 expressly tells us that the sinner's judgment is coming. This judgment that many suggest takes place on the Last Day, is what the Bible speaks of as the Great White Throne Judgment for all lost souls. [Rev. 20:11] This judgment by Almighty God is distinct from the Judgment Seat of Christ mentioned in II Cor. 5:10 where we will be judged for worshipful, service accomplished in Christ's Name and through the empowerment of the Holy Spirit.

    Just before 'the hour of His judgment is come' [Rev. 14:7] God sovereignly dispatches the angel with the 'everlasting Gospel' [vs. 6] who will preach so all sinners will have their last opportunity to believe and trust in Christ for their "everlasting salvation." This angel will be dispatched during the Great Tribulation era of time. [Matt. 24:21] Notice God does not merely say 'tribulation' but uses the expressive word 'great' (megas -Greek- meaning 'exceedingly great or mighty' {Tribulation}.

    In Revelation 14:8 'another angel' announces that 'Babylon is fallen.' Many commentatrors believe "Babylon" speaks of the quasi-spiritual Rome/Vatican. Why? Because spiritual fornication has been committed down through the centuries.

    ' . . . the third angel' described in verse nine warns sinners not to worship any one but Almighty God. Any remaining sinners who worship the 'antichrist' are assured of being sent to Hell, forever. Notice verses 9-11. Notice also that the angel speaks and or preaches to the inhabitants of the whole world. [vs. 6 & 9]

    Christ started the Gospel of the Kingdom while He was on earth [ Matt. 4:23; 9:35] but it was interupted when the Romans and Jews crucified Him. This 'Gospel of the Kingdom' will be reintroduced [Matt. 24:14] and continued during the 1,000 year reign of Christ from Jerusalem [Zechariah 14:9 & 17]

    The Beatitudes of Matthew 5:3-11 will become the Magna Carta for the Kingdom Age, meaning the 1,000 year theocracy, the Millinimum on earth. We will still be living under His grace and will still be saved by His blood atonement during this dispensation before the final eternity with God in the New Heaven. [Rev. 21:1] From Genesis until eternity, salvation will always have been through His grace alone and received by the conduit of the free will and the human response of faith in Jesus, aided by the Holy Spirit. [Romans 5:1; Galatians 3:26]
     
  13. tyndale1946

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    Interesting comments... And like Brother Dallas said... More Light Lord, More Light... Here is some more light from John Gill!

    And I saw another angel,.... This is to be understood not of one of the ministering spirits so called; for though wings are sometimes ascribed to angels, and Gabriel is said to fly swiftly; and though they desire to look into the mysteries of the everlasting Gospel, yet the preaching of that is not committed to any of them; but a minister of the Gospel is intended, who is the angel of the church, for in this book pastors of churches are so called, Re 1:20; and not a single minister of the Gospel is meant, but a set of Gospel ministers; and some think that those are designed who appeared in the eighth and ninth centuries, both in the eastern and western empire, against the worshipping of images; since this angel calls upon the inhabitants of the earth to fear God, give glory to him, and worship him, and not images; but there was little of the everlasting Gospel preached in those times. Others are of opinion that those who preceded, and led on to the Reformation, are pointed at by this angel, such as Wickliff in England, Franciscus Petrarcha in Italy, John Huss and Jerom of Prague in Bohemia, with others; but these also had not the everlasting Gospel in its clearness and purity, nor did they preach it to all the inhabitants of the earth; rather I think a set of Gospel preachers are intended, who will appear at the beginning of the spiritual reign of Christ, and will be a means of ushering it in; and these are the watchmen of Zion, who will give the Lord no rest till he has made Jerusalem the praise of the whole earth; and who will then see eye to eye in Gospel mysteries, and will publish good tidings of peace and salvation, and proclaim Zion's King reigning, Isa 62:6; this angel is called "another", being distinct from the voice heard Re 14:2, though he is the first with respect to the following angels, as appears from Re 14:9; the place where John saw this angel, and the position he was in, follow:

    fly in the midst of heaven: the church, the great congregation, the several congregations of the saints; in the midst of which these ministers will preach righteousness, salvation, loving kindness, and truth, as Christ has done before them; and from hence the word of the Lord will go forth to all parts of the world: they will preach the Gospel openly and publicly, with great freedom, boldness, and intrepidity, in the view of all men, not fearing the faces of any; and the Gospel ministered by them will have a swift, sudden, and universal spread; they themselves will run to and fro, and the Gospel will run and be glorified, and the earth will be filled with the knowledge of the Lord, and multitudes will flock to Christ, who in that day will be alone exalted; for these ministers will come forth publicly:

    having the everlasting Gospel; the Gospel in its fulness and purity; the Gospel of the grace of God, of free justification by the righteousness of Christ, of peace and pardon by his blood, and of complete salvation by him; called everlasting, because the substance of it was settled from all eternity, in the council and covenant of peace; it was ordained before the world was, and was hid in God from the beginning; and the revelation of it was of old; it was made to our first parents immediately after the fall, and was spoken of by all God's holy prophets which have been since the world began; it was preached before unto Abraham, and in the times of Isaiah, and by other prophets, and so is no new upstart doctrine: besides, the matter of it is everlasting; it treats of everlasting things; of the eternal election of persons to salvation; of God's everlasting love to them; of an everlasting covenant he made with Christ on their account; of blessings, promises, and grace given to them in him, before the world began; and of his being set up so early as a Mediator, and of his going forth in a way of grace from everlasting; as well as it reveals an everlasting righteousness, and brings life and immortality, or eternal life to light, or shows the way to everlasting life and happiness; to which may be added, that it will abide for ever, it will always remain, and that inexpugnable, maugre all the opposition of hell and earth; it will continue till all the elect of God are gathered in, notwithstanding the violence of persecutors, or the craft of seducers; nor will it be antiquated and made void by another Gospel succeeding it, for there will be no other: now this the ministers of those times will "have"; not in their heads only, by knowledge, but in their hearts, by experience, and will have it in their mouths, and speak it out freely and openly, and will have a commission from Christ to preach it, and gifts qualifying them for it:

    to preach to them that dwell on the earth; that are in the apostate church, carnal, unregenerate, and earthly persons. The Complutensian edition reads, "that sit on the earth"; as persons abject, mean, and distressed, to whom the Gospel is acceptable:

    and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people; whether Jews, Turks, or Pagans; for the Gospel, as before observed, will now have an universal spread all the world over.


    Revelation 14:7

    Ver. 7. Saying with a loud voice,.... These ministers shall lift up their voice like a trumpet, and cry aloud, and deliver out the Gospel fully and faithfully, with great authority and power, and with much vehemence, zeal, and fervency:

    fear God; or "the Lord", as some copies, the Vulgate Latin and Arabic versions, read: not the antichristian beast and his followers, as men formerly had done; but God the Lord, and him not with a servile fear, or a fear of punishment, of wrath, hell, and damnation; nor with a distrust of his grace, love, power, and providence, much less with an hypocritical fear; but with a godly fear, which has the goodness of God for its object, and springs from a sense of the love of God, and is a reverential affection for him, and is attended with faith and spiritual joy, and includes all worship of him, both internal and external; hence the Syriac version renders it, "serve God": and this shows that the duties of religion are to be inculcated by Gospel ministers; and that they will be urged by them when the everlasting Gospel is preached in its greatest purity:

    and give glory to him; and not to graven images, which he will not allow; and glory is to be given to him, on account of the perfections of his nature, and, the works of his hands; and is given when men ascribe greatness to him, praise his works of creation, and acquiesce in those of Providence, acknowledging the power, goodness, and wisdom of God in all; and when they give thanks for all his mercies, temporal and spiritual, and especially for Jesus Christ; and when they exercise faith on him as their God in Christ, and ascribe their salvation to him and to the Lamb, and not to the works of their hands; and when they attend his worship, and the duties of religion, and so glorify him with their bodies and spirits, which are his:

    for the hour of his judgement is come; not of the great and last judgment, but of the government of the Lord Christ, committed to him by God the Father; in which sense the word is used in Joh 5:22 for now will the time be come, when the kingdoms of this world will be his; and he will take to himself his great power, and reign, in a spiritual manner, in the world; and now also will be his time of judging the dead, or of avenging his people, whose blood has been shed for him, and of his judging the great whore, or of inflicting his judgments upon antichrist and his followers; all which will be under the sounding of the seventh trumpet, to which this vision is contemporary; see Re 11:15

    and worship him that made heaven and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters; God, the Creator of all things; and not the beasts, nor idols, the works of men's hands... Brother Glen [​IMG] & [​IMG] Sister Charlotte [​IMG]
     
  14. BobRyan

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    Agreed. However someone posted on this thread that they thought first Angel of the 3 Angels in Rev 14 had something to do with Mormons. I simply noted that as far as I know - there is absolutely no connection between Mormons and the 3 Angels of Rev 14.

    In Christ,

    Bob
     
  15. BobRyan

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    In fact the Judgment of Rev 14's Gospel message is in fact the 2Cor 5:10 judgment and is not the Great White throne judgment of Rev 20. This can be seen from a number of facts.

    The Rev 20 judgment occurs after the beast is set up, and the image to the beast and the number of his name. It occurs after the saints that were killed for not worshipping the beast have been raised. It occurs after the 1000 years when the fate of all is already decided.

    In Rev 14 - the "everlasting Gospel" is in fact the "One Gospel" of Gal 1:6-11 - there has only been one in all of time according to Paul.

    That message about the everlasting Gospel that focuses on Gospel judgment and the Gospel command to worship God as creator - using the unique language of the 4th commandment - is the message of the first angel. It is preached to every nation on earth - a great evangelistic push. Not consistent with events at the close of the 1000 years in Rev 20.

    The second Angel shows the response of Babylon to that message - Babylon falls at that point. Whereas Rev 20 closes with events long after the fall of Babylon. Namely the great white throne judgment.

    The third angel calls God's People - to come out of Babylon and be not partakers of the 7 last plagues. This is clearly identifying events before the great white throne judgment of Rev 20 AND before the millenium - and before the coming of Christ pictured in Rev 19 and before the 7 last plagues of Rev 15.

    It is a final hour last call to humanity to prepare for the end. Just as Noah gave for 120 years in his day.

    In Christ,

    Bob

    [ April 28, 2003, 11:40 PM: Message edited by: BobRyan ]
     
  16. Ray Berrian

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    Bob Ryan,

    With due respect I don't think you know the difference between the separate judgments of II Corinthians 5:10 and Revelation 20:11. Some believe only in one final judgment for both the lost and the saved; this is a big error.

    You said, 'In fact the Judgment of Rev 14's Gospel message is in fact the 2Cor 5:10 judgment and is not the Great White throne judgment of Rev 20.'

    Revelation 14:1-7 deals with 144,000 witnesses to the Gospel during the Great Tribulation and verses 8-11 deals with sinners who take the 'mark of the Beast.' Verses 12-13 speak of the Great Tribulation saints who die in the Lord. Verses 14-20 deals with the the lost who will be pressed in the winepress because they are without faith in Jesus. This last cluster of verses does not deal with either Judgments but rather with God's anger against the rebellious lost souls during this future time.
     
  17. Ray Berrian

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    Revelation 14:20 suggests that God's anger will be vented 'without the city' meaning outside of Jerusalem. The slaughter of God's judgment will have blood splashed up to the 'horses' bridles . . . ' Dr. A.T. Robertson, the Greek scholar, suggests that the event will be in Palestine in the Valley of Jehoshaphat. [Joel 2:12] I agree with Dr. Robertson.
     
  18. BobRyan

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    I am glad to see you and Dr Robertson in such agreement.

    However the details of Rev 14:7-9 remain as I pointed them out. Babylon falls long before the millenium and the great white thrown event of Rev 20 AND also before the 7 last plagues.

    Also the evangelism described in Rev 14:7-8 is not consistent with events at the end of the millenium.

    You are not dealing with those details in your response. Since the focus is on the 3 angels message - there is no escaping our looling into the details of those 3 messages. Yet your response entirely avoids it when looking for the timing - the sequence of the messages. The events of Rev 14:7-9 form a preface detailing the warning of vs 9-20.

    But the events of the 3 angels messages that end in the "warning" of vs 9-20 come BEFORE the warning event predicted - not after.

    In Christ,

    Bob
     
  19. Ray Berrian

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    Bob Ryan,

    I'm guessing that you might be Post-Millennial in your views. I am rather sure that you know that not all of Scripture in Revelation is in chronological order.

    It is difficult for me to follow your views since they are foreign to Premillennial interpretation.

    Notice in I Thess. 4:16 Jesus does not have a crown on His head at the rapture, but in Revelation 14:14 He does have on the crown because we will have at the meeting in Heaven, crowned Him King of kings, and Lord of all lords. At this Second Coming also noted and confirmed in Revelation 19:15 & 16 we see that He 'treads the winepress' {as in Revelation 14:19-20} and also 'on His vesture and on His thigh is written, King of kings and Lord of lords.'
     
  20. BobRyan

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    #1. I am premillenial.

    #2. In Rev 20 John shows us that in the future their are exactly two resurrections. As he points out in John 5 using the Words of Christ (a resurrection of the just and a resurrection of the unjust). In Rev 20 he says that the first resurrection is the one over which the 2nd death has no power.

    In 1Thess 4 we see "the dead in Christ" are raised. (No mention is made that "Christ does not have a crown" in 1Thess 4 BTW). This is in fact the FIRST resurrection as we see it again in Rev 20. It is the one upon which the church is entirely focused (as we see in 1Cor 15).

    #3. In Rev 14:7 we see World Wide Gospel Evangelism to EVERY nation tribe tounge and people - and it specifically focuses on the Gospel subject of the judgment declaring that the hour HAS already come.

    This world wide Gospel evangelism calls all mankind to "worship" God as creator - using the unique language of God's own Words in Exodus 20:8-11.

    World Wide Gospel evangelism is NOT the subject of Rev 20. Nor of the great white throne judgment in Rev 20.

    Rev 20:4 declares that the beast has already established his mark, and worship and persecution - but in Rev 14:8 we find that Babylon falls - in Rev 14:7 it has yet to fall.

    #4. Although it is clear that not all of Rev is "in sequence" we DO have the following --


    Rev 19 - the return of Christ.
    Rev 20 - the Resurrection of the saints.
    Rev 20 - the Millenium
    Rev 20 - the Great White Throne Judgment
    Rev 21 - the New Earth - The new Jerusalem comes down out of heaven.
    Rev 22 - More description of the new Earth

    The Sequence is clear.

    In Christ,

    Bob
     

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