The Appointment of Elders

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by Hardsheller, Aug 14, 2007.

  1. Hardsheller

    Hardsheller
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    Baptists have always insisted on a democratic polity that says each church member has an equal say in church matters that come before the body.

    In light of Titus 1:5

    Tit 1:5 For this cause left I thee in Crete, that thou shouldest set in order the things that are wanting, and ordain elders in every city, as I had appointed thee:

    How can we Baptists insist on the local congregation being the only Biblical way of obtaining a pastor?

    And how can we maintain the autonomy of the local church when Titus had such an obvious role in appointing elders over local congregations?


     
  2. Jkdbuck76

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    Perhaps Titus was to go there and see who God has raised up? And then he would appoint them to the work?

    I mean, Samuel annointed David, but only after God pointed him out.


    No matter what, you can bet if Titus were to choose, he'd spend some time in prayer to do so.


    Also, it could be that Paul was telling Titus to go back to his own local church. Furthermore, Paul was an Apostle. He had authority that doesn't exist today.... I mean, I haven't seen anyy Apostles running around.
     
  3. Hardsheller

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    The only problem is that we don't know how many churches were on the island of Crete. It is an island about 3200 sq miles which makes it the largest island in Greece.

    Regardless of whether or not Titus was to go back to his own local church or not - Paul is still telling him to appoint elders.

    No we don't have any apostles running around today but we still have the words of the Apostles which is called "The Bible" and for Baptists that is the Inspired, Inerrant Word of God.

    So how can we maintain as Baptists that the only proper way to call a pastor is for the Congregation to vote on him?
     
  4. menageriekeeper

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    Paul is not telling Titus to APPOINT elders. He is telling him to ORDAIN elders.

    Appoint is like hiring someone. It's how I managed to get 'drafted' for this position or that.

    Ordaining speaks of teaching and training folk so that they are equipped to teach and train others. Hence they become elders.

    Do you really think that someone who is qualified to be a pastor but isn't currently pastoring loses the postion/title of elder simply because he doesn't have a church? Are deacons not also considered elders?
     
  5. Hardsheller

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    I really don't think you can make that clear a distinction between the word ordain in the KJV and the word appoint in the ESV. The Greek means to designate or appoint. I think we stretch the scripture to try to make it fit our doctrine.
     
  6. menageriekeeper

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    You know that is an interesting question. Perhaps some of more learned folk will kindly explain why one version uses the word ordain and the other appoint and what the original context was.
     
  7. Jkdbuck76

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    Food for thought: where these elders appointed for life? I mean, who is to say that once Titus appointed them, they were stuck with them for the rest of their lives?

    I must remember that this was the early, young church. Maybe Paul had to tell Titus to do this since this was the start of the church. I bet that after the church got started, they elected their own people thereafter---but that is merely speculation. I wasn't there.
     
  8. menageriekeeper

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    This is pretty much my idea as well. I know there is some tradition in other denoms of the local church not electing their own pastors. However, even those who pastor those churches are volunteers who are trained by those in the church. (I am loosely including everyone involved in training all the way down to their childhood SS teachers) You can't discount even in those denoms that there is input from the local congregations on who gets to pastor. (maybe not where, but who)
     
  9. EdSutton

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    What?? Someone would actually "stretch" Scripture to make it fit their doctrine????


    "Say it isn't so, Ethel!"
    :tonofbricks: :laugh: :laugh:

    Ed
     
  10. Jerome

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    How else would it be done?
    As you said, there are no longer apostles or their emissaries to do it.

    Acts 1 describes how a vacant church office was filled.
    Should we cast lots for a pastor too?
     
  11. Hardsheller

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    Worked for the Biblical guys.

    Prov 16:33
     
  12. Hardsheller

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    Here's the Truth.

    We all know of at least one pastor who probably should be a pastor.

    Some are divorced.
    Some are unordained (not that this is a deal breaker but it raises some questions)
    Some are immature.
    Some are greedy.
    Some are arrogant.

    The list goes on and on and is diametrically opposed to what we find in Titus 1: 6-9

    My concern is that any man who wants to be a pastor can be if he looks hard enough. He can find a church who will take him regardless of his Biblical Qualification.

    My question is - Shouldn't there be some kind of clearinghouse for Baptist Preachers to guard against this kind of thing.

    Paul had Titus do it.

    We don't have any such guys.

    Shouldn't other Baptist Churches play a role in this?
     
  13. Bible Believing Bill

    Bible Believing Bill
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    Who would appoint the elders? As pointed out by others already there are no apostles today.

    By the congregation choosing the pastor aren't they really appointing them to the position?

    Bill
     
  14. Jkdbuck76

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    In Acts 2, they cast lots to replace Judas. Who knows if God approved of this...Scripture does not say.

    However, Jesus chose Paul.

    What we are left with is having to read the Word, and seek God's will thru prayer.
     

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