The Bema Seat Judgement A question

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by merryyon, Aug 16, 2005.

  1. merryyon

    merryyon
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    Mother needs info on the Bema Seat Judgement, can you help?
     
  2. James_Newman

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    2 Corinthians 5:10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.
     
  3. Dr. Bob

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    The bema (bench) was a place primarily for rewarding winners in legal/sporting events.

    Reminder: The AV "good" or "bad" makes it seems like God will list all actions and judge them.

    "Bad" means "worthless" or "without value". Our works will be judged as that which can be rewarded and what will not get reward.

    All of our sins - 100% - have already been judged at the cross. To imply that we will be judged at the Bema and pay for our sins is often done in our churches and totally erroneous.
     
  4. James_Newman

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    Those are comforting words, brother, but totally baseless. The idea that a 'bema' is just a place for handing out trophies is not shown anywhere in the bible, in fact the opposite is shown over and over again.

    John 19:13 When Pilate therefore heard that saying, he brought Jesus forth, and sat down in the judgment seat in a place that is called the Pavement, but in the Hebrew, Gabbatha.

    That is a bema.

    Acts 18:12-17
    12 And when Gallio was the deputy of Achaia, the Jews made insurrection with one accord against Paul, and brought him to the judgment seat,
    13 Saying, This fellow persuadeth men to worship God contrary to the law.
    14 And when Paul was now about to open his mouth, Gallio said unto the Jews, If it were a matter of wrong or wicked lewdness, O ye Jews, reason would that I should bear with you:
    15 But if it be a question of words and names, and of your law, look ye to it; for I will be no judge of such matters.
    16 And he drove them from the judgment seat.
    17 Then all the Greeks took Sosthenes, the chief ruler of the synagogue, and beat him before the judgment seat. And Gallio cared for none of those things.

    That is a bema.

    Acts 25
    10 Then said Paul, I stand at Caesar's judgment seat, where I ought to be judged: to the Jews have I done no wrong, as thou very well knowest.
    11 For if I be an offender, or have committed any thing worthy of death, I refuse not to die: but if there be none of these things whereof these accuse me, no man may deliver me unto them. I appeal unto Caesar.
    15 About whom, when I was at Jerusalem, the chief priests and the elders of the Jews informed me, desiring to have judgment against him.
    16 To whom I answered, It is not the manner of the Romans to deliver any man to die, before that he which is accused have the accusers face to face, and have license to answer for himself concerning the crime laid against him.
    17 Therefore, when they were come hither, without any delay on the morrow I sat on the judgment seat, and commanded the man to be brought forth.

    That is a bema.

    Every instance, we see people accused and brought before a judge, sitting on a judgment seat. What is your proof that the judgment seat of Christ is different? Why should I believe that the judgment seat of Christ is little more than an award ceremony, kind of like the little-league pizza party at the end of the season?

    2 Corinthians 5:10-11
    10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.
    11 Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God; and I trust also are made manifest in your consciences.
     
  5. OldRegular

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    The Apostle Paul tells us in Romans 8:16 -18:

    16. The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
    17. And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.
    18. For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.


    If we are heirs of God and joint-heirs with Jesus Christ what more reward can there be?
     
  6. James_Newman

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    What if we don't suffer with Him?
     
  7. OldRegular

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    The Scripture states:

    16. The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
    17. And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.
    18. For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.


    If we are children then we are heirs. We are also promised tribulation by Jesus Christ.

    John 6:33 These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.
     
  8. James_Newman

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    The scripture also states:
    Romans 8:13-14
    13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
    14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

    So what if you live after the flesh, instead of being led by the Spirit?
     
  9. OldRegular

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    Speak for yourself. Paul also states in the same chapter

    9. But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
    16. The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
    17. And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ
    ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.
     
  10. James_Newman

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    Are you saying that you don't walk after the flesh, or are you saying that it is impossible for a Christian to walk after the flesh?

    1 Corinthians 3:1-3
    1 And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ.
    2 I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able.
    3 For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?
     
  11. OldRegular

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    No! No! No!

    I am saying that a Christian is a child of God by Adoption and as such is an heir and joint heir with Jesus Christ.

    Romans 8:15-17
    15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.
    16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
    17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.


    It is really quite simple if you believe the Apostle Paul! :D :D :D
     
  12. Lacy Evans

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    "If" means "if"! This is not an automatic benefit of salvation. It is a conditional promise to Christians who choose to "suffer with him". You can read it any way you like but that is what it says.

    There is "salvation" and there are "things that accompany salvation".

     
  13. OldRegular

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    "If" means "if"! This is not an automatic benefit of salvation. It is a conditional promise to Christians who choose to "suffer with him". You can read it any way you like but that is what it says. </font>[/QUOTE]How does one choose to suffer with Jesus Christ, the same way the flagellanties do?
     
  14. Ed Edwards

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    "If" means "if"! This is not an automatic benefit of salvation. It is a conditional promise to Christians who choose to "suffer with him". You can read it any way you like but that is what it says.
    </font>[/QUOTE]I respectfully disagree.

    Rom 8:17 (KJV1769 with Strong's Numbers):
    And1161 if1487 children,5043 then2532 heirs;2818 heirs2818 of(3303) God,2316
    and1161 joint-heirs4789 with Christ;5547
    if so be that 1512
    we suffer with4841 him, that2443 we may be also2532
    glorified together.4888

    As can be seen, the conditional IF is
    on CHILDREN (of God)

    G1512

    εἴ περ

    ei per
    i per
    From G1487 and G4007; if perhaps: - if
    so be (that), seeing, though.


    IMHO "seeing" is better than 'if so be that'.
    Check this modern version:

    Rom 8:17 (HCSB):
    and if children, also heirs--heirs of God
    and co-heirs with Christ --
    seeing that we suffer with Him so that we may also be glorified
    with Him.

    We shall suffer with Christ;
    we shall be Glorified when Christ
    comes back for us at the pretribulation
    rapture/resurrection.

    Joh 16:33 (HCSB) These things I haue spoken vnto
    you, that in me ye might haue peace, in
    the world ye shall haue tribulation\:
    but be of good cheare,
    I haue ouercome the world.
     
  15. James_Newman

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    "If" means "if"! This is not an automatic benefit of salvation. It is a conditional promise to Christians who choose to "suffer with him". You can read it any way you like but that is what it says. </font>[/QUOTE]How does one choose to suffer with Jesus Christ, the same way the flagellanties do? </font>[/QUOTE]It's easy really. You deny yourself, and take up your cross and follow Him.
    Matthew 16:25-27
    25 For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it.
    26 For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?
    27 For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.

    How many Christians, like that rich young ruler, will go away sorrowful when God and mammon part ways? Or when their loved ones are offended, will be ashamed of the word? Peter didn't believe he would deny Christ, but he did three times.
     
  16. OldRegular

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    "If" means "if"! This is not an automatic benefit of salvation. It is a conditional promise to Christians who choose to "suffer with him". You can read it any way you like but that is what it says. </font>[/QUOTE]How does one choose to suffer with Jesus Christ, the same way the flagellanties do? </font>[/QUOTE]It's easy really. You deny yourself, and take up your cross and follow Him.
    Matthew 16:25-27
    25 For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it.
    26 For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?
    27 For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.

    How many Christians, like that rich young ruler, will go away sorrowful when God and mammon part ways? Or when their loved ones are offended, will be ashamed of the word? Peter didn't believe he would deny Christ, but he did three times.
    </font>[/QUOTE]Peter was still a child of God and, therefore, an heir of God and joint-heir with Jesus Christ. You can't deny Scripture because you don't like what it teaches.
     
  17. James_Newman

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    I don't deny that Peter was a child of God. I affirm it most vehemently. I believe OSAS to the nth degree. What I do deny is your interpretation that says 'once I am a child of God, I am no longer held accountable for sins.'

    Galatians 5:19-21
    19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
    20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
    21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

    All of these sins, and such like, will keep a believer from inheritting the kingdom of God, son or not. I don't like to admit that I have been guilty of many of these sins, even after being saved (in fact my worst sin occured during my backsliding) but you cannot say that a Christian is incapable of doing such things. Otherwise the bible would not have to warn believers over and over against such things.

    1 Corinthians 10:1-12
    1 Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea;
    2 And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea;
    3 And did all eat the same spiritual meat;
    4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.
    5 But with many of them God was not well pleased: for they were overthrown in the wilderness.
    6 Now these things were our examples, to the intent we should not lust after evil things, as they also lusted.
    7 Neither be ye idolaters, as were some of them; as it is written, The people sat down to eat and drink, and rose up to play.
    8 Neither let us commit fornication, as some of them committed, and fell in one day three and twenty thousand.
    9 Neither let us tempt Christ, as some of them also tempted, and were destroyed of serpents.
    10 Neither murmur ye, as some of them also murmured, and were destroyed of the destroyer.
    11 Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come.
    12 Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall.
     
  18. Dr. Bob

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    How pathetic our God is that He totally 100% forgives our sin and THEN we will still be judged for them??

    If I stand before a "judge" to "judge" my sins, then God lied.

    BTW Brother, what a horrible life for a Christian to walk in terror of his loving Father. I feel very sorry for you if you truly believe that we will face an "ultimate judgment" at the bema. :(
     
  19. James_Newman

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    The God of the bible never said you would not be judged.

    Psalms 50:3-6
    3 Our God shall come, and shall not keep silence: a fire shall devour before him, and it shall be very tempestuous round about him.
    4 He shall call to the heavens from above, and to the earth, that he may judge his people.
    5 Gather my saints together unto me; those that have made a covenant with me by sacrifice.
    6 And the heavens shall declare his righteousness: for God is judge himself. Selah.

    Heb 10:26 For if we sin willfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
    Heb 10:27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
    Heb 10:28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
    Heb 10:29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
    Heb 10:30 For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.

    Walking in the fear of God is not walking in terror, unless we be convicted of sin in our life. You decry the fear of God, but the bible says the fear of God is a good thing.

    Psalms 19:9-10
    9 The fear of the LORD is clean, enduring forever: the judgments of the LORD are true and righteous altogether.
    10 More to be desired are they than gold, yea, than much fine gold: sweeter also than honey and the honeycomb.

    Proverbs 2:1-5
    1 My son, if thou wilt receive my words, and hide my commandments with thee;
    2 So that thou incline thine ear unto wisdom, and apply thine heart to understanding;
    3 Yea, if thou criest after knowledge, and liftest up thy voice for understanding;
    4 If thou seekest her as silver, and searchest for her as for hid treasures;
    5 Then shalt thou understand the fear of the LORD, and find the knowledge of God.

    The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom, and anyone lacking the fear of God lacks understanding. It is true that our sin has been judged ultimately, and that we will not pay the eternal penalty for sin in the lake of fire, praise the Lord! But sin has consequences. We reap what we sow and God is not mocked. If in this life we can be chastened for sin, there is no reason to believe that we cannot be chastened in the world to come.
     
  20. OldRegular

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    James how can you say you believe OSAS and state that
    Seems totally inconsistent to me.
     

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