The Bible and Home Remedies

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by jsn9333, Aug 7, 2007.

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  1. jsn9333

    jsn9333
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    First of all, I would not encourage participating in any activity that is illegal.

    Here are some questions for discussion:

    I have had medical problems in the past in which herbal or "home" remedies (elderberry extract, apple cider vinegar, etc.) have worked better then "drug company" drugs (especially concerning viral infections).

    Question 1. What does the Bible say about herbal remedies? Is it okay or is it warned against? Are there any mentioned in the Bible? Surely people in those days used medicine and herbs like the rest of the world throughout history. I have heard that olive oil was used for a lot of heath reasons in Biblical times.

    Also, some people make their own wine and use it moderately (a glass or two usually with food) by doctor's advice to reduce chances of heart attacks after heart problems and because is something they enjoy drinking at parties (like the wedding at Cana where Christ made wine) as it acts as a slight social lubricant (when used lightly and moderately) and generally makes the heart glad. Others use it in religious ceremonies (Jews at Passover, early Christians drank wine at the Lord's supper and some still do, etc.).

    Question 2. What does the Bible say about wine? Is it okay or is it warned against (for each application: health, social pleasure, and for spiritual communion)? Well, I suppose we know the answers to this one since Christ made wine for a wedding party (the host told him it was the kind that people usually bring out first, the good wine, that people got a little drunk from... though not necessarily "fail the sobriety test drunk" if you know what I mean). Also, the Bible says Christ drank wine, though it never says he got exceedingly drunk. Even though the Bible says Noah got drunk in Genesis 9:22, it never says he got "exceedingly drunk" or drunk to a level that is sinful (which is prohibited by Ephesians 5:18, where it says not to be "drunk with excess"). Both Noah and Christ surely would've passed police field sobriety tests after drinking their wine. When the Bible describes "drunk" to a sinful level it describes someone who would not pass a field sobriety test (in other words, they look like they are on a "ship at high sees" (see Proverbs 22) (we've all seen these people on cops, they can't even walk straight!!) and they can't see well and even may vomit (Isaiah 28). It doesn't ever say Noah or Christ were in that state. Noah did sleep after it mentions him drinking, but people took naps during the heat of the day sometimes, and perhaps it was the evening time.

    Some people grow or buy their own herbs, using some of the ones I mentioned above for health reasons, and sometimes using other herbs for spiritual communion and social pleasure, similar to the way some people use alcohol. An example of a legal plant that is used as a drug is salvia, see link at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salvia_divinorum
    It is a psychoactive substance that can have hallucinogenic effects.

    Question 3: What does the Bible say about salvia? Is it okay or is it warned against? I personally would say this drug would be advised against in large enough quantities to produce hallucinations, since "trouble seeing" is one of the ways the Bible describes "drunk to excess".

    Also, some people grow and smoke marijuana in California in order to relieve their glaucoma and help with their creativity as artists. It is legal to aquire for medical reasons in that state, and some people who use it for medical reasons find it also has the side effect of being a social lubricant similar to the drug in wine (alcohol) and in aiding their creativity and helping their spiritual communion.

    Question 4: What does the Bible say about marijuana? Is it okay or is it warned against? I personally would say this drug would be advised against Biblically in large enough quantities to produce hallucinations, since "trouble seeing" is one of the ways the Bible describes "drunk to excess". However, Wikipedia and other online resources describe hallucinations as only occurring from this drug when massive amounts are used very quickly (massive and excessive amounts of alcohol quickly can induce hallucinations also).

    P.S. - I would not encourage participating in any activity that is illegal.
     
  2. Helen

    Helen
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    The Bible says very little about specific plants or plant products. Instead it warns us to keep a clear mind and focus on God Himself.

    Medicinally, it is being found that there are a lot of remedies naturally that science has forgotten about or ignored. For instance, I read an article yesterday about the studies that have been done with green tea and I was astonished at how much green or white tea can help with all manner of things. I have discovered anise seeds help with my menopausal sweats. Cinnamon helps with my diabetes (type II). Herbs and spices especially seem to be God's provision for us in a number of ways.

    I also read an article recently that someone in Israel formulated one of the anointing oils the Bible gives a 'recipe' for in the OT and it turned out to be a rather potent anti-viral agent. This makes a lot of sense since the priests were constantly handling dead animals!

    Olive oil was the oil most commonly used in the Bible for everyday use and it, too, has shown itself to be a good health booster.

    There have been blood-and-guts arguments on BB about wine. Personally, I find the Bible only warns against becoming intoxicated with liquor and recommends wine for a couple of things, such as depression and stomach ailments. Most of the folk here who argue against wine have been taking a few verses out of context and imagining context into others. I try to remember to have some wine occasionally, but that turns into about one glass a month! So it probably is not doing much more for me than complimenting the occasional steak dinner!

    Hope that helps a bit before this becomes ANOTHER violent discussion about wine and alcohol!
     
  3. CheeseCrackerKidd

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    Herbs such as hyssop were used medicinally.

    There is a common misconception among many that the wine Jesus made at Cana of Galilee was fermented. A careful study of Scripture would show it was not. The wine issue has been hashed and rehashed so much that it is obvious that those proponents of moderate consumption of alcohol are blinded to the truth that God forbids it in the life of a Christian. The only time God allowed it in the Old Testament was when one had a bitter heart and was ready to die.

    Wine was either fermented or unfermented in the Bible depending on the context. The wine that Solomon warned not to even look at was fermented. The Christian is not to experience or even approve of alcoholic beverages.

    I did not know Salvia was a drug. Dictionary says it is a member of the mint family.

    Marijuana, since it alters the normal mind functions, would be forbidden. It is not glorifying God at all.

    Funny, from your thread on marijuana that was moved, it appears that you were encouraging the use of marijuana. Last time I checked, it is illegal.
     
  4. 2 Timothy2:1-4

    2 Timothy2:1-4
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    The only spiritual communion you will get out of Marijuana is from the pit of hell. I find it difficult to believe a Baptist would suggest such a thing. And quite honestly a Christian for that matter. You are either fighting the Holy Ghost or just cant hear Him.

    Communion with God can only be had throught the blood of Jesus Christ. At the point when we call on God in repentence realizing we need Jesus' blood to atone for our sin against God then the Holy Ghost indwells in us. Since He is indwelt in us we do not need the aid of harmful and illegal drugs to commune with God. Now you said spiritually I am assuming you meant the one true and living God of Abraham Isaac and Jacob. If you are communing with something else then I will pray for you.


    But quite honestly I smell a troll.
     
  5. saturneptune

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    I just have to ask, for those using marijuana for spiritual communion, is it open or closed communion?
    [​IMG]
     
    #5 saturneptune, Aug 7, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 7, 2007
  6. Joe

    Joe
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    Hello

    I asked if you live in California but I will edit my post since I assume you don't. You called California "that state". As you pointed out in your post, it is only legal in California. If you are in any other state, it is illegal. And if it is illegal in your state, why advocate for it's use on this board?
    Most of the people on this board are not from California, and even if they were, they likely aren't exposed to weed anyways. In Northern California, the Sierra foothills area is remote enough to grow it in large quantities. Otherwise, there are many cities.

    I am not going to say it is evil to smoke pot, that's just silly. There are degrees of sin, and up there is divorce (in most situations) murder, etc...
    Marijuana use is ok if someone is in extreme pain. Otherwise, recreational use of this drug is never acceptable. Though it is legal here in California, it remains illegal regarding federal laws.

    A warning to all...Your state could follow suit and legalize marijuana. I would need to start a new thread if listed all of the problems we have here due to the passing of Prop 15.

    Joe
     
    #6 Joe, Aug 7, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 7, 2007
  7. 2 Timothy2:1-4

    2 Timothy2:1-4
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    Considering his kind of communion I am sure it is open. When has Satan ever turned anyone away?
     
  8. npetreley

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    Okay, we get the message already. You smoke pot and you don't want to feel guilty about it. Enough.
     
  9. saturneptune

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    I can understand having differences on lots of spiritual issues, but there is a certain base level of inherent knowledge that any Christian should possess. I am never going to judge someone's salvation (because I cannot, neither can anyone else), however, I would urge those who would ask the question about marijuana being ok from a Biblical standpoint for herbal or any other reason, to examine themselves.
     
  10. npetreley

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    I get his message, and I even agree on some points. Plants are just plants. Some can be beneficial, some can be harmful, others not, and still others are debatable.

    Stevia is not illegal, but it is "technically" against the wishes of the FDA to use the herb Stevia as a sweetener. I use it that way all the time. It's just a plant, it makes a darned good sweetener, and as much as half the diet drinks in Japan are sweetened with Stevia. It's just not possible to market it as a sweetener in the USA because companies like Monsanto keep it off the market so it won't compete with Nutrasweet and Sucralose.

    Marijuana is just a plant, too, but the harmful affects of marijuana ARE still debatable, and it IS illegal. The latter point is the clincher. If someone wants to rationalize why it's okay to break the law, fine, but I don't see how Baptist Board is the place to do it.
     
  11. Joe

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    How funny. I just edited my post and it says basically the same thing. We were typing at the same time
     
  12. Magnetic Poles

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    Medical marijuana was approved in Colorado as well, and even recreational use and possession of small amounts is treated about as seriously as a traffic ticket. The city of Denver also voted to decriminalize it altogether.
     
  13. jsn9333

    jsn9333
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    Thanks for the input. I'll have to look into green and white tea. I have recently been astonished at how many healthful remedies can come from apple cider vinegar. I agree with the warnings against losing sobriety from wine, etc. A glass of wine with a steak certainly wouldn't result in failing a sobriety test though, that's for sure. I have found sometimes it even helps clear my mind.
     
  14. jsn9333

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    I do know Cristians who drink wine in their religious ceremonies (actual wine that contains the drug alcohol). For the most part, my experience with them is that they sincerely are practicing their faith. I can't really question that. I do know of people who claim to be Christians who also use other substances. Again though, I do not encourage illegal activity, even speeding 1-2 mph over the speed limit. I would encourage you to obey all laws and ordinances where you live.
     
  15. jsn9333

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    I do not encourage illegal activity, even speeding 1-2 mph over the speed limit. I would encourage you to obey all laws and ordinances where you live. I'm simply posing questions about the ways Christians might or might not have used various medicines and substances (herbs, vinegars, and drugs like alcohol, etc.) through time.
     
  16. jsn9333

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    I do not encourage illegal activity, even speeding just 1-2 mph over the speed limit. I would encourage you to obey all laws and ordinances where you live. I won't dignify with a response your accusation that I "smoke pot". If I have in the past that is none of your business anyway. Many people in this country have at one time in their life or another. Please refer me to a post on this board in which I say I smoke pot if you have one. Otherwise, just know that I do not encourage illegal activity.
     
  17. jsn9333

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    I'm curious as to what Scriptures you studied to come to the conclusion that the wine the Bible mentions at Cana was not wine, but rather was just grape juice. Also, what language are you reading these Scriptures in (the original, or a translation?). As I said, the host said in John 2, "Everyone brings out the choice wine first and then the cheaper wine after the guests have become drunken; but you have saved the choice wine for now." The word he used to describe how people get from the choice wine is, methyƍ. That is the greek word that is translated into "drunken" in my above quote of John 2. It literally translates to "drunken". It does not merely mean "satisified" (as with water or grape juice). Look it up if you would like. It literally means "drunken".

    That being said, the Bible is clear that it is a sin to become drunk to the point of failing a sobriety test ("drunken to excess" is the phrase used in Eph. 5, and Solomon describes it as like being on a ship in the high sees). The only way the terms used at Cana make sense is if intoxicating wine is what was made, but that it was to be used to become intoxicated "to excess". If Christ making wine doesn't match your theology, I think your theology needs to change. Because methyo is always going to mean methyo. I don't think you can change that.

    When you mentioned Solomon's warning about looking at wine I assume you're talking about Proverbs 23:30. The actual word used in the passage is "gaze". It is a similar implication as the word "lust". It is okay to look at your neighbors wifes face as you're talking to her (we're not Muslims here). But it is a sin to lust after her. Similarly it is okay to look at the glass of wine the person in the restaurant may be drinking. It is a sin to lust after it, to make it what you exceedingly desire above all else. The same passage also sets up the context of verse 30 by mentioning drinking "too much wine" (verse 20) and "lingering over the wine" (verse 30). I'm not sure how you get "unfermented verses fermented" from this passage. Looks to me like he is talking about "lusting" "too much" and "lingering" after wine, versus just treating it like a normal blessing to be enjoyed but not sinned with.

    As far as encouraging the use of any illegal drug, I do not encourage illegal activity, even speeding 1-2 mph over the speed limit. I would encourage you to obey all laws and ordinances where you live. I don't even encourage the use of salvia, which is a legal drug.
     
  18. jsn9333

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    I think many churches had to deal with the 'alcohol debate' after Prohibition ended. Many now have a "keep it to yourself" policy as far as whether or not you should drink. I wonder if the church's perception of marijuana use would change if it were legalized. Is it changing in California?

    I'm not sure I see the harm from Prop 15. Can you tell me some of the problems. I do not encourage the use of illegal substances at all. When it comes to legislation though, I note that God never commanded Israel to make laws against the use of any particular drug or alcohol. There are warnings against drug abuse (relating to alcohol and likely other intoxicating substances), but I never see any laws (with punishments like stoning, expulsion, etc. So perhaps laws are not the way to change people's hearts. Perhaps we can't legislate morality. Perhaps changing hearts is the job of the Holy Spirit, not the Federal Government.

    Perhaps the U.S. has learned from its mistakes during the Prohibition of alcohol, and has realized that money spent trying to get people to not drink (or in this case use cannabis) doesn't work. I mean, here we are 80 years into the drug war, and we have a higher rate of marijuana use in this country then Amsterdam (where it is legal for all intents and purposes).

    I would say that legalizing drugs in this country is one of the best ways to reduce drug use. Seriously. It would become less attractive to rebellious teens, and instead of making criminal drug dealers rich the government could fund education programs with tax dollars (since people have shown they will buy the drug regardless, whether it is from a way over-priced dealer, or from the more affordable government). It could also fund drug treatment programs (prison doesn't do it for many addicts, especially when it comes to the "super addictive" drugs like heroin and cocaine).
     
  19. CheeseCrackerKidd

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    A glass of wine may or may not result in failing a sobriety test, but it certainly will result in failing the obedience test.

     
  20. CheeseCrackerKidd

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    The post where you admitted you smoke marijuana is found in the private men's forum.
     
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