Featured The Bible gift of Prophecy - that some don't like

Simple. She says God has an investigative judgment phase going on in heaven right now - and that it includes the saints of all ages - in fact anyone that has any claim at all to the blood of Christ.

I then check that against 2Cor 5:10, Dan 7, Romans 2, etc and see if it is in line with Scripture.

Same for any claim she makes about a specific doctrine - where the claim is that God has said something to her on that point.

One of the great cities of 750BC is told by Jonah that "in 40 days Ninevah WILL BE destroyed".


[FONT=&quot]Jonah 3[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]1[/FONT][FONT=&quot]Now the word of the LORD came to Jonah the second time, saying, [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] 2"Arise, go to Nineveh the great city and proclaim to it the proclamation which I am going to tell you." [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] 3So Jonah arose and went to Nineveh according to the word of the LORD. Now Nineveh was an exceedingly great city, a three days' walk. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] 4Then Jonah began to go through the city one day's walk; and he cried out and said, "[/FONT][FONT=&quot]Yet forty days and Nineveh will be overthrown." [/FONT]


He does not say "maybe might be destroyed".

He does not say "possibly destroyed if they do not repent".

The reason that I don't call Jonah a false prophet is because I "notice what the Bible says" about both the blessings and the curses that God gives to mankind.

Thus "reading the Bible FIRST" is a key part of the answer - as much as some like to avoid it.

[FONT=&quot]Jer 18[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot] 6"Can I not, O house of Israel, deal with you as this potter does?" declares the LORD. "Behold, like the clay in the potter's hand, so are you in My hand, O house of Israel. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] 7"At [/FONT][FONT=&quot]one moment I might speak concerning a nation[/FONT][FONT=&quot] or concerning a kingdom to uproot, [/FONT][FONT=&quot]to pull down, or to destroy it;[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] 8 [/FONT][FONT=&quot]IF[/FONT][FONT=&quot] that nation against which I have spoken turns from its evil, I will relent [/FONT][FONT=&quot]concerning the calamity I planned to bring on it. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] 9"Or at another [/FONT][FONT=&quot]moment I might speak concerning a nation or concerning a kingdom to build up or to plant[/FONT][FONT=&quot] it; [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] 10 [/FONT][FONT=&quot]IF[/FONT][FONT=&quot] it does evil in My sight by not obeying My voice, then I will think better of the good [/FONT][FONT=&quot]with which I had [/FONT][FONT=&quot]promised to bless it.[/FONT]


[FONT=&quot]
In Zechariah 9 the first coming of Christ is described in glory and power dominating the world -

[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Zech 9
[/FONT]8 But I will camp around My house because of an army, Because of him who passes by and returns; And no oppressor will pass over them anymore, For now I have seen with My eyes.
9 Rejoice greatly, O daughter of Zion! Shout in triumph, O daughter of Jerusalem! Behold, your king is coming to you; He is just and endowed with salvation, Humble, and mounted on a donkey, Even on a colt, the foal of a donkey.
10 I will cut off the chariot from Ephraim And the horse from Jerusalem; And the bow of war will be cut off. And He will speak peace to the nations; And His dominion will be from sea to sea, And from the River to the ends of the earth.[FONT=&quot]

But In Matt 23 Christ proclaims the ultimate curse "your house is left to you desolate"[/FONT]

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Prophecy regarding the future - blessings and curses is conditional according to the Bible
=============================

But statements on doctrine are much easier to test.

in Christ,

Bob

 

Do a little home work and see that Ninevah actually was destroyed in such a complete fashion that to this very day nobody lives in that old city of Ninevah. It is one of the few cities of the earth that was so completely destroyed. Most of the other cities simply had newer versions built on top of the old ruins.

In any case - you are trying to avoid the Bible point that is confronting your view that no prophecy is conditional.

The very reason Jonah is accepted as a true prophet (given his language and prediction) is due to the Jeremiah 31 principle of conditional prophecy.

The point remains.

in Christ,

Bob

 

Your efforts to ignore the obvious are not going unnoticed.

1. Jonah is the author of the book of Jonah.

2. Jonah is saying that HE gave them no options - 40 days and they were toast.

3. JONAH is saying God changed his mind.

What part of this is difficult for the objective unbiased reader?

So far - none of it.

And the "reason" we do not conclude that this is a case of Jonah being a false prophet is because GOD already affirmed his rule about conditional prophecy when it comes to blessing and curses.
====================================

Thus "reading the Bible FIRST" is a key part of the answer - as much as some like to avoid it.

[FONT=&quot]Jer 18[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot] 6"Can I not, O house of Israel, deal with you as this potter does?" declares the LORD. "Behold, like the clay in the potter's hand, so are you in My hand, O house of Israel. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] 7"At [/FONT][FONT=&quot]one moment I might speak concerning a nation[/FONT][FONT=&quot] or concerning a kingdom to uproot, [/FONT][FONT=&quot]to pull down, or to destroy it;[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] 8 [/FONT][FONT=&quot]IF[/FONT][FONT=&quot] that nation against which I have spoken turns from its evil, I will relent [/FONT][FONT=&quot]concerning the calamity I planned to bring on it. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] 9"Or at another [/FONT][FONT=&quot]moment I might speak concerning a nation or concerning a kingdom to build up or to plant[/FONT][FONT=&quot] it; [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] 10 [/FONT][FONT=&quot]IF[/FONT][FONT=&quot] it does evil in My sight by not obeying My voice, then I will think better of the good [/FONT][FONT=&quot]with which I had [/FONT][FONT=&quot]promised to bless it.[/FONT]


[FONT=&quot]
In Zechariah 9 the first coming of Christ is described in glory and power dominating the world - and in that case it is all blessing and glory for the House of God in Israel.

[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Zech 9
[/FONT]8 But I will camp around My house because of an army, Because of him who passes by and returns; And no oppressor will pass over them anymore, For now I have seen with My eyes.
9 Rejoice greatly, O daughter of Zion! Shout in triumph, O daughter of Jerusalem! Behold, your king is coming to you; He is just and endowed with salvation, Humble, and mounted on a donkey, Even on a colt, the foal of a donkey.
10 I will cut off the chariot from Ephraim And the horse from Jerusalem; And the bow of war will be cut off. And He will speak peace to the nations; And His dominion will be from sea to sea, And from the River to the ends of the earth.[FONT=&quot]

But In Matt 23 Christ proclaims the ultimate curse "your house is left to you desolate"[/FONT] - which is basically the curse of Solomon in 1Kings 9:8


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It does not get any easier than this.

in Christ,

Bob

 

Maybe my prior post was too subtle - I will try to be more direct.

Your statement about Jonah appealed to Jonah's OWN statement that God had changed his mind. What Prophet on the planet (true or false) could not say after a certain event does not take place - "God changed his mind"??

Yet this principle is "your proof" and your defense in the case of Jonah. The proof is "the prophet making the prediction later says that God changed his mind".

By contrast "my proof" is in the Bible proven "principle" that Prophecy is "conditional" as a rule when it comes to blessings or curses.

Indeed - did SHE also claim that God changed the plan just like Jonah did based on the reaction the continued obedience vs rebellion of the people?

As we all can conclude - "yes she did". That is the easy part.

But more significantly DOES the SAME Jeremiah 18 Bible principle apply to prophecy in the 1800's as it has in all ages?

Well clearly the answer is "YES" for God Himself states "I change NOT".

What makes prophecies God gave her to be conditional when it comes to blessings and curses JUST LIKE they have been in ALL ages - is the unchanging nature of the WORD of God.

Hence I keep quoting Jeremiah 18 - and you keep avoiding it.

Thus "reading the Bible FIRST" is a key part of the answer - as much as some like to avoid it.

[FONT=&quot]Jer 18[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot] 6"Can I not, O house of Israel, deal with you as this potter does?" declares the LORD. "Behold, like the clay in the potter's hand, so are you in My hand, O house of Israel. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] 7"At [/FONT][FONT=&quot]one moment I might speak concerning a nation[/FONT][FONT=&quot] or concerning a kingdom to uproot, [/FONT][FONT=&quot]to pull down, or to destroy it;[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] 8 [/FONT][FONT=&quot]IF[/FONT][FONT=&quot] that nation against which I have spoken turns from its evil, I will relent [/FONT][FONT=&quot]concerning the calamity I planned to bring on it. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] 9"Or at another [/FONT][FONT=&quot]moment I might speak concerning a nation or concerning a kingdom to build up or to plant[/FONT][FONT=&quot] it; [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] 10 [/FONT][FONT=&quot]IF[/FONT][FONT=&quot] it does evil in My sight by not obeying My voice, then I will think better of the good [/FONT][FONT=&quot]with which I had [/FONT][FONT=&quot]promised to bless it.[/FONT]


It is also why I keep arguing that when it comes to a choice between evaluating a prediction of a blessing or curse - vs evaluating a claim about doctrine - by a prophet it is easier to test doctrine because there is no conditional nature to it.


in Christ,

Bob

 

What - no mention of a "condition" in Jonah's "original" prophecy TO Ninevah?

Wow - then can we just ignore Jeremiah 18 and pretend that he is a false prophet?

Apparently not. Well then ... problem solved.

I like these easy ones - got any more?

in Christ,

Bob

 

Go back and read the answer in post 27 where your speculation was completely debunked - sola-scriptura.

Objective unbiased readers are capable of reading with comprehension - ...

And so your circle-back arguments are not working very good here simply by your solution of "pretending not to notice" when the answer is posted.

As with all empty and vacuous accusations yours simply runs out of steam and your final resolution is simply to ignore the points where your own accusation is found to fail the test of scripture and circle back to the accusation itself as if this solves the problem your argument has when it conflicts with accepted scripture.

have another go at it.

in Christ,

Bob

 

Yes - I believe we find that here --

[FONT=&quot]Jer 18[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot] 6"Can I not, O house of Israel, deal with you as this potter does?" declares the LORD. "Behold, like the clay in the potter's hand, so are you in My hand, O house of Israel. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] 7"At [/FONT][FONT=&quot]one moment I might speak concerning a nation[/FONT][FONT=&quot] or concerning a kingdom to uproot, [/FONT][FONT=&quot]to pull down, or to destroy it;[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] 8 [/FONT][FONT=&quot]IF[/FONT][FONT=&quot] that nation against which I have spoken turns from its evil, I will relent [/FONT][FONT=&quot]concerning the calamity I planned to bring on it. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] 9"Or at another [/FONT][FONT=&quot]moment I might speak concerning a nation or concerning a kingdom to build up or to plant[/FONT][FONT=&quot] it; [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] 10 [/FONT][FONT=&quot]IF[/FONT][FONT=&quot] it does evil in My sight by not obeying My voice, then I will think better of the good [/FONT][FONT=&quot]with which I had [/FONT][FONT=&quot]promised to bless it.


[/FONT] By contrast - Jonah does not preach a message that says "IF you repent God will not destroy your city in 40 days".

I think we all know that.

And so the text of Jonah becomes important that this point.

[FONT=&quot]Jonah 3[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]1[/FONT][FONT=&quot]Now the word of the LORD came to Jonah the second time, saying, [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] 2"Arise, go to Nineveh the great city and proclaim to it the proclamation which I am going to tell you." [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] 3So Jonah arose and went to Nineveh according to the word of the LORD. Now Nineveh was an exceedingly great city, a three days' walk. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] 4Then Jonah began to go through the city one day's walk; and he cried out and said, "[/FONT][FONT=&quot]Yet forty days and Nineveh will be overthrown." [/FONT]

Yet we know that the Jeremiah 18 principle applies to his message of warning just as God said it would in the case of a curse.

And in the case of Israel - God was not calling them to leave Egypt and die in the wilderness (though they kept accusing Moses of having that plan). But when they resorted to Rebellion right at the Jordan - well then the blessing they were called out of Egypt to receive - was not theirs.

Just as Jonah did not say "40 days and Ninevah will be destroyed UNLESS you repent before them" and just as Moses did not say "Take you to a land flowing with milk and honey - UNLESS you choose to rebel in which case you will all die in the wilderness" -- so also the blessing of the soon Second Coming and entering into the heavenly Canaan did not happen due to what Ellen White termed "insubordination" towards God by the Millerite Adventists that refused to take the last and final step, they refused to embrace Revelation 14:6-12..

in Christ,

Bob

 

God is the one that authored the book of Jeremiah - not me.

God's teaching in Jeremiah 18 is that prophecy regarding blessing and curses - is conditional. And that is why we can know that Jonah was not a false prophet.

The fact that God knows all - and always has - cannot be used by finite man to try and negate the principle God states in Jer 18.

Impossible to ignore

in Christ,

Bob