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The Bible is God's message to all or only some?

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by menageriekeeper, Feb 22, 2010.

  1. pinoybaptist

    pinoybaptist Active Member
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    Why shouldn't I be ?
    You haven't treated me any other way but nice since we started posting here.:thumbs:
     
  2. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
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    (.....psssst, Pinoy, it's probably because she feels sorry for you..........) :)
     
  3. Amy.G

    Amy.G New Member

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    Boy are you in trouble now! :laugh:
     
  4. Theopolis

    Theopolis New Member

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    Just for the record, I am neither Calvinist nor Arminian. I personally find that both of those systems of theology have faults. In my opinion, the truth of Scripture actually lies somewhere in between either of those two theology's.
     
  5. Theopolis

    Theopolis New Member

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    "Those therefore whom God passes by he reprobates, and that for no other cause but because he is pleased to exclude them from the inheritance which he predestines to his children - Calvin's Institutes 3:23:1
     
  6. Jerome

    Jerome Well-Known Member
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    But are you a Baptist?
     
  7. pinoybaptist

    pinoybaptist Active Member
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    uh, oh...:smilewinkgrin:
     
  8. pinoybaptist

    pinoybaptist Active Member
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    Well, that is Calvin's opinion.
    not necessarily true.
     
  9. Theopolis

    Theopolis New Member

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    Excellent question.

    A short bit of my testimony may possible help in answering such a question. When I was yet unsaved, a co-worker of mine and I would always discuss the Bible during the course of our workday. This co-worker would continually tell me that unless I became born again, I could never see or enter the kingdom of Heaven. I would argue with him and call him a fanatic. Then one day he came to work with a new Bible, he approached me and said, I want you to have this. I did accept it from him, and stowed it away in my locker where it collected dust for some time. Our discussion on being born again continued to the point where I couldn't stand it any longer, so I told him I was going to take the Bible he gave me home, and prove from that book that he was wrong. At home I would spend time reading and re-reading John chapter 3, and none of it made any sense to me. A week went by and I continued trying to decipher the mystery about what it meant to be born again. Then one day, for whatever reason, I opened the Bible, and I got down on my knees and prayed. I pray something like this; Dear God, I am trying to understand what this born again stuff means, and I can't seem to figure it out, no matter how much I try. Dear God, a co-worker of mine keeps telling me that unless I become born again I will never be able to enter heaven. Dear God, please tell me what it all means, and whether I need to become born again. I do so much want to be in heaven with you when this life ends. So if there is something I need to know about the importance of this, dear God, would you please show me? I finished praying, and once again began reading John 3, but something was different this time. I now could understand what it was saying to me. It was as if God shined his spot-light on the verses of Scripture, the words leaped off the pages at me. I turned to Proverbs, and then to Romans. What's going on here. I can now understand those words that once remained a darkened mystery to me. I was totally amazed. To make a long story short, I became saved.
    So, these days I thank that co-worker who cared enough to give me, an unsaved person a Bible.
     
  10. Theopolis

    Theopolis New Member

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    No I am not.
    I do however have many baptist friends, and on occasion attend baptist churches for special events. If you were to read my profile it would tell you which denomination I attend.
     
    #50 Theopolis, Feb 22, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 22, 2010
  11. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
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    .......(goodbye)......... :)
     
  12. Theopolis

    Theopolis New Member

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    That same concept was later penned into the Reformed WCF

    The rest of mankind, God was pleased, according to the unsearchable counsel of his own will, whereby he extendeth or withholdeth mercy as he pleaseth, for the glory of his sovereign power over his creatures, to pass by, and to ordain them to dishonor and wrath for their sin, to the praise of his glorious justice. - Westminister Confession of Faith
     
  13. pinoybaptist

    pinoybaptist Active Member
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    And I am not reformed either.
    just a primitive baptist.
    besides, the charge was that those of the Doctrine of Grace are excluding anyone from salvation/redemption.
    not true.
    but first let me set the main principle.
    salvation is finished, redemption is complete.
    those who are saved and right now are caught in the vise or grip of ungodly theology or such like, have an eternal salvation secured for them by One who by trial and tribulation learned obedience to the One who sent Him, and therefore, they who call upon His Name are under obligation to learn obedience towards Him through their own trials and tribulation.

    All whose names are written in the Lamb's Book of Life have had their sins atoned for, their redemption obtained and completed, regardless of their theological stance, politics, race, geography, chronological existence in this plane called time.

    None are excluded by God on account of any of the above factors, and no one has any right to exclude anyone, by confession or anything.
     
  14. annsni

    annsni Well-Known Member
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    I agree with this wholly. I've been talking to some young women on another board I'm on and one of them said that she's read the Bible 3 times through and is on her 4th time but she's a neopagan. Here's what she said:

    I read it the first time to decide if I wanted to be christian or not.

    I read it the second and third time for the purpose of being able to debate better with Christians. You can hardly debate an issue you have *no* knowledge of.

    This fourth time is because I'm reading Sitchen and Von Danniken's work, which is about how aliens influenced early religion and the Bible is referenced on numerous occasions. It's a research project...I'm going through and looking for references that could have been early man mistaking an ET for a "god."

    I also think it's an interesting look at ancient history, full of fun stories. It's like reading The Odyssey or The Illiad. I especially love Revelations, because I read a lot of post-Apocalypse type stuff.


    So what is the Scriptures to her? Nothing. However, I read them and they are life giving. VERY different responses to the Scriptures. I do think that those who read and come to Christ are those who the Father is calling. Others, like this young woman, can read them over and over again and get nothing but aliens out of it.
     
  15. menageriekeeper

    menageriekeeper Active Member

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    Oddly enough, I find that this particular passage occured before the Holy Spirit came to us. Not to discount the importance of the Spirit mind you, nor that of Christ Himself, but the scriptures were around long before this particular event. How then did all the people before Christ came understand the scriptures?

    That a Messiah would come was clearly understood even if there was some mistake as to what His coming would accomplish. We can't believe that God allowed millinea of people to die for lack of the Holy Spirit's influence? (yeah, that is a question)

    Its seems that you are arguing from a vacuum. There is no doubt that we are taught that scripture is for believers. But there is nothing, not even in these passages that you quote that states that scripture is ONLY for believers.

    I think it was Winman which posted scriptures that point to the opposite being the case. (somewhere around post #20)

    Theopolis, Non-Baptists are not allowed to post in the Baptist only forums of which this one is. Pretty soon a mod is going to come and tell you to quit posting in this section of the board and if you don't desist they will ban you from the board. I appreciate the input, but had I wanted the opinions of non-Baptists I would have posted in the Other Denominations forum.
     
    #55 menageriekeeper, Feb 22, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 22, 2010
  16. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
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    Ohhhh, you're preaching to the choir.

    "Was not our heart burning within us, while he spake to us in the way, while he opened to us the scriptures?"

    I can honestly say there's nothing I've ever done or experienced in this world that has caused my heart to soar and given that joy unspeakable like the preached or written word when it comes with power. Nothing.
     
  17. Theopolis

    Theopolis New Member

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    Theologically I am a Baptist. My theological views don't differ from Baptists. I just don't currently attend a Baptist Church, although I have and may again.
     
    #57 Theopolis, Feb 23, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 23, 2010
  18. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
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    The Spirit was here as early as the 2nd verse of the Book; “.....and the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters”. When Christ said, “Ye must be born again [from above]....The wind bloweth where it will.....so is every one that is born of the Spirit”, He was not implementing something new, He was revealing a mystery from of old, something that had always been. It is a mistake to confuse the 'clothing with power from on high' and the work of the Comforter, with the work of the Spirit in regeneration which was around long before Pentecost.

    In all honesty, I speak the truth, I have for decades prayed the same exact short supplication of David whenever sitting to read the scriptures, “Open thou mine eyes, that I may behold wondrous things out of thy law.” And I soooo relate with David when he says, “I rejoice at thy word, as one that findeth great spoil.” As I said in a prior post, in my life I've never experienced that joy and peace, that heartburn, from anything like that which comes from being taught by the Spirit, whether from the preaching or from the reading of the word. It's been my experience that when the Spirit teaches it comes in like a flood, it'll blow you away. I believe the OT saints were able to have that same experience.

    I don't understand the question, but I have one for you:

    ...I dwell in the high and holy place, with him also that is of a contrite and humble spirit... Isa 57:15

    Did God dwell with these folks because they were of a contrite and humble spirit, or were they of a contrite and humble spirit because God dwelt with them? You know, which comes first, the chicken or the egg?

    I say they were of a contrite and humble spirit because God dwelt with them.
     
    #58 kyredneck, Feb 23, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 23, 2010
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