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The Biblical Doctrine of Election: It is Specific

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by ReformedBaptist, Sep 6, 2008.

  1. ReformedBaptist

    ReformedBaptist Well-Known Member

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    This is backwards. Those who are chosen, believe.
     
    #41 ReformedBaptist, Sep 15, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 15, 2008
  2. lbaker

    lbaker New Member

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  3. lbaker

    lbaker New Member

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  4. ReformedBaptist

    ReformedBaptist Well-Known Member

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    Not in the way you mean it. lol Does election make certain the salvation of some? Absolutely. Will they be saved regardless of what they do? NO.


    Actually, its defining freewill differently than libertarian freewill.


    The non-elect are not saved, yes.

    No. It means that there are false professos who continue in their hyprocrisy and are justly condemned for it.
     
  5. Amy.G

    Amy.G New Member

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    No you are backwards. :laugh:

    You cannot be saved without faith in Christ. Faith comes first, then salvation. What you are saying is that God saves, then gives you faith to believe. That is backwards.

    Jesus came to save the lost, the sinner, the poor in spirit, the unrighteous. Jesus said believe or be condemned. Without faith it is impossible to please God.

    If God saves you before you believe, then what you have is God saving those who are already righteous.


    Mar 2:17 When Jesus heard [it], He said to them, "Those who are well have no need of a physician, but those who are sick. I did not come to call [the] righteous, but sinners, to repentance."
     
  6. lbaker

    lbaker New Member

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  7. ReformedBaptist

    ReformedBaptist Well-Known Member

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    Since the Bible teaches God chose us in Christ before the world began, explain how our faith predates God's choice.

    Second, please re-read my post. Your still equating election with salvation.

    RB
     
  8. ReformedBaptist

    ReformedBaptist Well-Known Member

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    No. All God's elect will be saved.


    You honestly don't know?


    I am not sure. I am sure some are decieved, decievers, and being decieved. They are lost.
     
  9. lbaker

    lbaker New Member

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    Well that certainly sounds like there WILL be some lost folks pounding on the door to heaven trying to get in.

    RB here: Will they be saved regardless of what they do? NO.

    This appears to me to conflict with what you said about "All God's elect will be saved."
     
  10. ReformedBaptist

    ReformedBaptist Well-Known Member

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    First part, wrong.

    Second part, wrong.

    Keep studying.
     
  11. lbaker

    lbaker New Member

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    Please explain how I am misunderstanding what you wrote.
     
  12. ReformedBaptist

    ReformedBaptist Well-Known Member

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    I will later. I am done debating for now.
     
  13. lbaker

    lbaker New Member

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    Okay, I appreciate it. I'm about to cut out anyway. See ya later.
     
  14. Lukasaurus

    Lukasaurus Member

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    lbaker, RB is lost in a web of his own theology. A very good book on the subject is "The Other side of Calvinism" by Lawrence Vance. Yes, he is KJBO (I will point that out before someone else feels the need to valiently do so) but this side of his doctrine does not come through in the book, except in a small section on Lordship Salvation.

    I have also heard that another book "The Dark Side of Calvinism" is also very good.

    The logical conclusion of RB's theology is this

    Since a man is regenerated BEFORE he hears the gospel and believes it, it stands to reason that man is regenerated without any means, simply by God, regardless of the gospel and the hearing by faith. Thus, it stands that if the elect never hear the gospel, then they can be still be saved. Eddie Garrett, a Hardshell Calvinist, believes exactly this. That many people will be in heaven who have never heard the gospel, or even believe it, because God is sovereign. The gospel is just an afterthought.

    Eddie Garrett and other Hardshell Calvinists are the only consistent calvinists.
     
  15. ReformedBaptist

    ReformedBaptist Well-Known Member

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    Is this how you refute a position? By saying a man is lost in the web of his own theology? lol When folks start flinging mud, they end up losing ground and getting dirty.

    The conclusion your drawing/inventing is not logical, but more importantly, is not biblical. Perhaps you viewed my blog and saw my article against the fallicous position of KJV-onlyism. Is that why your angry?

    RB
     
  16. ReformedBaptist

    ReformedBaptist Well-Known Member

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    There is quite a difference between someone seeking Christ, repenting of their sins being sensible to them, turning from their sins, trusting in the finished work of Christ, seeing that Christ alone can save them and they cannot save themselves, and thus calling on the name of the Lord....and those who are decieved into believing they are ok but are not.

    Please explain.
     
  17. Lukasaurus

    Lukasaurus Member

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    I haven't seen your blog.

    Sorry if I come across as angry. I have a smile on my face

    see :)
     
  18. ReformedBaptist

    ReformedBaptist Well-Known Member

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    http://www.biblebelievers.com/Vance4.html

    If this article is an indication of the whole of the 800 pages the man wrote, I couldn't stomach the book. The except alone is filled with strawmen and false arguments.

    Oh well...but what more should I expect from the anti-calvinist camp.
     
  19. Lukasaurus

    Lukasaurus Member

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    It's filled with quotes from calvinists, so yeah, I guess it is filled with garbage.

    That is an introduction to the book. I think that is in the first chapter. He doesn't actually get to the doctrines of calvinism until chapter 5.

    Chapter 1 is an intro. Chapter 2 is on Calvin. Chapter 3 is on Arminius. Chapter 4 is on the Synod of Dort I think.. I don't have the book here now.
     
  20. ReformedBaptist

    ReformedBaptist Well-Known Member

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    It is indeed a fine display of the mastery of a man defeating his own arguments. There is enough of the book online to see its ridiculous claims.

    huh? ohhh...I get it..we are reallllly...calvinists...we harbor presbyterian leanings...but please oh please oh please, don't call us Calvinists! Get a grip.

    Call me a Calvinist if you like. Makes no difference to me at all. John Calvin was a fine theologian. Please associate me with the man.

    The implication Vance raising is a specture of his own imagination. Also, his statement is fallicous. Has the man read "all who hold the Calvinistic system" ? Of course not. The speculation is his, and his alone. Or any dupe that is believing his argument.

    Here's another,

    And what would the good Dr. Vance expect Boettner to say? "We believe the Calvinistic system might be the only one set forth in the Scriptures....is one of the systems that one might conclude maybe is set for in the Scriptures...? ??

    Of course Calvinists are going to say they believe their doctrine to be the doctrine of the Scirptures. duh. Wouldn't Dr. Vance say the same thing of his own doctrine?

    My 2 cents? The book isn't worth the cost of printing it.

    RB
     
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