1. Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

The Biblical Purpose of Signs and Wonders

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by The Biblicist, Oct 15, 2012.

Top Posters
  1. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2011
    Messages:
    16,008
    Likes Received:
    481
    I think some imagine that God is bored in heaven and to liven up the scene on earth he sprinkled out some excitement in miralces signs and wonders.

    The bible has ONE prominent reason for miracles signs and wonders from Moses to the Apostles - To confirm the Word spoken/written as the Word of God.

    A. Moses the first miracle worker of the bible

    Ex. 4:1 ¶ And Moses answered and said, But, behold, they will not believe me, nor hearken unto my voice: for they will say, The LORD hath not appeared unto thee.
    2 And the LORD said unto him, What is that in thine hand? And he said, A rod......
    5 That they may believe that the LORD God of their fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, hath appeared unto thee.


    B. Elijah the Second Miracle Worker of the Bible

    1 Kings 18:36 And it came to pass at the time of the offering of the evening sacrifice, that Elijah the prophet came near, and said, LORD God of Abraham, Isaac, and of Israel, let it be known this day that thou art God in Israel, and that I am thy servant, and that I have done all these things at thy word.


    C. Jesus

    Acts 2:22 Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know:

    Joh 10:25 Jesus answered them, I told you, and ye believed not: the works that I do in my Father’s name, they bear witness of me.

    Joh 10:37 If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not.

    Joh 10:38 But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him.


    D. The Apostles:

    Heb. 2:3 How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him;
    4 God also bearing them witness, both with signs and wonders, and with divers miracles, and gifts of the Holy Ghost, according to his own will?

    Conclusion: Miracles signs and wonders have the PRIMARY design to CONFIRM the spoke/written word of God to be truth.


    SATANIC MIRACLES have the very same purpose in reverse. To use AUTHENTIC POWER of miracles signs wonders to confirm ERROR as truth and thus be used to DECEIVE people.

    2 thes. 2:9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,

    Mt. 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
    25 Behold, I have told you before.

    Mt 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?




    How to tell the difference between the true and false miracles?

    1. BOTH are genuine signs and wonders and REAL power
    2. The distinction is the TEACHING being confirmed.
    3. Demonic power in the name of Christ (Mt. 7:22) confirms FALSE doctrine

    CONCLUSION: True miracles signs and wonders confirm TRUTH and TRUTH is ultimately tested by God's Word not by miracle power:

    Isa. 8:20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.

    1 Jn. 4:1 ¶ Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try [test] the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.....
    6 We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.


    Hence, if the miracle worker or their theological advocates tell you such absolute nonsense that Hell has a "WELCOME" sign over it you can be assured this is a real or fake miracle that confirms ERROR and thus originates form the "spirit of error." If they teach false doctrine their miracles signs and wonders are DEMONIC in origin.
     
    #1 The Biblicist, Oct 15, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 15, 2012
  2. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2012
    Messages:
    52,624
    Likes Received:
    2,742
    Faith:
    Baptist
    the false prophet will do miracles in end times to be able to deceive multitude, and the man of Sin will do 'deceitful wonders", and Jesus said that things will happen that if possible, even elect could be deceived!

    IF the truth of Bible is compromised in ANY fashion, that the doctrines deny the Bible ANY way, not of/from God!
     
    #2 Yeshua1, Oct 15, 2012
  3. billwald

    billwald New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2000
    Messages:
    11,414
    Likes Received:
    2
    Moses closes the canon and defines acceptable preaching

    Deuteronomy 13
    King James Version (KJV)
    13 If there arise among you a prophet, or a dreamer of dreams, and giveth thee a sign or a wonder,

    2 And the sign or the wonder come to pass, whereof he spake unto thee, saying, Let us go after other gods, which thou hast not known, and let us serve them;

    3 Thou shalt not hearken unto the words of that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams: for the Lord your God proveth you, to know whether ye love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul.

    4 Ye shall walk after the Lord your God, and fear him, and keep his commandments, and obey his voice, and ye shall serve him, and cleave unto him.

    5 And that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams, shall be put to death; because he hath spoken to turn you away from the Lord your God, which brought you out of the land of Egypt, and redeemed you out of the house of bondage, to thrust thee out of the way which the Lord thy God commanded thee to walk in. So shalt thou put the evil away from the midst of thee.

    6 If thy brother, the son of thy mother, or thy son, or thy daughter, or the wife of thy bosom, or thy friend, which is as thine own soul, entice thee secretly, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which thou hast not known, thou, nor thy fathers;

    7 Namely, of the gods of the people which are round about you, nigh unto thee, or far off from thee, from the one end of the earth even unto the other end of the earth;

    8 Thou shalt not consent unto him, nor hearken unto him; neither shall thine eye pity him, neither shalt thou spare, neither shalt thou conceal him:

    9 But thou shalt surely kill him; thine hand shall be first upon him to put him to death, and afterwards the hand of all the people.

    10 And thou shalt stone him with stones, that he die; because he hath sought to thrust thee away from the Lord thy God, which brought thee out of the land of Egypt, from the house of bondage.

    11 And all Israel shall hear, and fear, and shall do no more any such wickedness as this is among you.

    12 If thou shalt hear say in one of thy cities, which the Lord thy God hath given thee to dwell there, saying,

    13 Certain men, the children of Belial, are gone out from among you, and have withdrawn the inhabitants of their city, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which ye have not known;

    14 Then shalt thou enquire, and make search, and ask diligently; and, behold, if it be truth, and the thing certain, that such abomination is wrought among you;

    15 Thou shalt surely smite the inhabitants of that city with the edge of the sword, destroying it utterly, and all that is therein, and the cattle thereof, with the edge of the sword.

    16 And thou shalt gather all the spoil of it into the midst of the street thereof, and shalt burn with fire the city, and all the spoil thereof every whit, for the Lord thy God: and it shall be an heap for ever; it shall not be built again.

    17 And there shall cleave nought of the cursed thing to thine hand: that the Lord may turn from the fierceness of his anger, and shew thee mercy, and have compassion upon thee, and multiply thee, as he hath sworn unto thy fathers;

    18 When thou shalt hearken to the voice of the Lord thy God, to keep all his commandments which I command thee this day, to do that which is right in the eyes of the Lord thy God.
     
    #3 billwald, Oct 15, 2012
  4. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2011
    Messages:
    16,008
    Likes Received:
    481
    Moses does not close the Biblical canon. Deuternonmy does not close with Deut. 13:18. What Moses does is lay down the guidelines for discerning true and false revelations.
     
    #4 The Biblicist, Oct 15, 2012
  5. plain_n_simple

    plain_n_simple Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2011
    Messages:
    1,887
    Likes Received:
    6
    The bible has ONE prominent reason for miracles signs and wonders from Moses to the Today - To confirm the Word spoken/written as the Word of God.

    It also helps unbelief, gives the speaker credibility. If there are none, you are just a hireling, and a sounding brass. 1cor4:20, word without power is zero.
     
    #5 plain_n_simple, Oct 15, 2012
  6. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2006
    Messages:
    52,013
    Likes Received:
    3,649
    Faith:
    Baptist
    show me in scripture
     
    #6 Revmitchell, Oct 15, 2012
  7. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2012
    Messages:
    52,624
    Likes Received:
    2,742
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Strange, when did the Holy spirit need our help to help Him convict/convice/reprove/open up sinners?

    And HOW namny miracles and signs did John the Baptizer perform? How about jeremiah> he had NO converts during his ministry, was he lacking in that power or something?
     
    #7 Yeshua1, Oct 15, 2012
  8. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2011
    Messages:
    16,008
    Likes Received:
    481
    Again, the Bibical purpose for miracles, signs and wonders is repeatedly made clear from Genesis to Revelation and that is to CONFIRM THE WORD OF TRUTH.

    Likewise, Satan reproduces the very exact same signs with real power and "in thy name" (Mt. 7:22; 24:24) but they are "LYING" signs because they confirm FALSE DOCTRINE.

    The video's that have been provided to prove the continuance of apostolic miralces, signs and wonders all have confirmed FALSE DOCTRINES.

    Like "welcome" to hell? Like, reversal of what Christ told the rich man in hell?? Like the huge number of absolute false prophecies that characterize every single "prophet" in the charismatic/pentecostal movement? Like the division that permeates the movement? Like the immorality that permeates the leadership of that movement!!!
     
    #8 The Biblicist, Oct 16, 2012
  9. plain_n_simple

    plain_n_simple Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2011
    Messages:
    1,887
    Likes Received:
    6
    "How to tell the difference between the true and false miracles?

    1. BOTH are genuine signs and wonders and REAL power"

    I agree both that sets of "signs and wonders" are real power.

    This is not about a doctrine being taught that is true or false, it is about the miracle itself.

    The only way to tell the difference between true and false miracles, are the miracles themselves.

    "Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them."

    15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.

    16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?

    17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.

    18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.

    19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.

    20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

    Healing the deaf, is a good thing. Restoring eyesight to the blind, is a good miracle. Casting out a devil, is good for the tormented. They are set free.



    Satan cannot bring forth good fruit, he is a corrupt tree.
    Jesus said Satan cannot cast himself out.

    17 But he, knowing their thoughts, said unto them, Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation; and a house divided against a house falleth.

    18 If Satan also be divided against himself, how shall his kingdom stand? because ye say that I cast out devils through Beelzebub.
     
    #9 plain_n_simple, Oct 17, 2012
  10. plain_n_simple

    plain_n_simple Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2011
    Messages:
    1,887
    Likes Received:
    6
    You are making a presumption that the miracles performed are identical.

    There is no definition in 2 Thessalonians of what the miracles are. They could be parting the sea, that would fool people, it could be a million frogs.

    Matthew 24 does not describe the wonders but gives remedy to who will know that they are false prophets. The elect. You and me. Christians

    That leads us to listen to Jesus, who tells us how to tell if they are false or true. Look at exactly what they are producing, the miracle itself

    These miracles can only be done by someone filled with love, and totally submitting to Jesus. These miracles are by nature in the Kingdom, where Satan cannot go.

    When Jesus healed someone notice He says "the Kingdom has been near you" or close to that.

    The kingdom in heaven, as on earth.

    Satan cannot touch these for another reason.

    It is the identifying mark of a Christian. Love
    Love is why we do it.
    There can be no glory for us because we cant possibly do a miracle.
    It has to be Jesus inside us
     
    #10 plain_n_simple, Oct 17, 2012
  11. plain_n_simple

    plain_n_simple Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2011
    Messages:
    1,887
    Likes Received:
    6
    Healing the sick is a good thing. Watching a little girl get up out of a wheelchair and walk is a healthy thought. Why fight about doctrine? Why not pray for people over and over til it happens? You can only be embarrassed and thats nothing if you have no pride. If I deny myself and get more of Him, He will manifest His works, I've done it. I have nothing to gain telling you this, you will call me a liar and ridicule me anyway. But miracles happen and it is available to everyone. When you see someone healed for real you will cry. You should try it. If you have ever had a love one sick or dying, I guarantee you will think of being able to help them like Jesus can.It's faith and anyone can do it if they get serious.There is not to lose but everything to gain.
     
    #11 plain_n_simple, Oct 17, 2012
  12. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2011
    Messages:
    16,008
    Likes Received:
    481
    So John the Baptist was but a "hireling, and a sounding brass"???? Jesus said he was the greatest man born from among women and yet he did not perform one miracle or perform one sign or miracle and yet there were prophets before him that did (Moses, Elijah, Elisha).

    Have you ever considered that Genesis to John the Baptist covers 4000 years of recorded history of God's people and yet only THREE prophets are recorded as performing miracles over a period of 4000 years??? Think about that! You cannot say miracles signs and wonders were not performed in that time period but you cannot say such things were emphasized by God among his people either!

    You are simply ignoring the Biblical testimony for the purpose of Miracles and miracle working men.

    Now, during that same period God answered prayers I am sure and worked among His people as He does now. Nobody denies that God heals according to His own purpose and will. But what we are denying is that God has miracle workers like the apostles today. The only miracle workers today are FALSE apostles and FALSE prophets and their FALSE PROPHECIES prove them to be so.
     
    #12 The Biblicist, Oct 17, 2012
  13. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2011
    Messages:
    16,008
    Likes Received:
    481


    I am not going to call you a liar and I am not ridiculing you. You are just deceived and it is "plain-n-simple" as that. It is easy to prove by the Word of God that you are deceived. ALL of your prophets prophesy falsely and it can be easily proven they are false prophets as their prophecies are on record and I could go through each one and list them.

    It is simple to prove you are deceived because the leaders of your movement are by their own "fruits" can be shown to teach false doctrines, immoral lifestyles, false prophecies and the whole movement is chaotic confusion.

    It is simple to prove you are deceived because you pragmatically accept miracle working power at face value to be of God when the scriptures explicitly say "BELEIVE NOT every spirit but TRY the spirits" and the spirits you are sincerely embracing have all the Biblical eararks of the "spirit of error" not the "spirit of truth."

    You fail to understand that miracle working power like that of Christ and the apostles is explicitly predicted in the last days as the SIGN of an apostate Christ-like movement (Mt. 24:24-25; 7:22; 2 Thes. 2:9-12) and so no one is doubting the sincerety of your beliefs, or the genuiness of the power behind the miracles, signs and "LYING" wonders.

    Neither is anyone denying God heals today and intervenes in the affairs of men miraculously. What is being denied is the continance of apostles, prophets and miracle workers today because the Bible explicitly places qualifications on apostles that is no possible to qualify men today, provides the Biblical purpose for apostolic signs and wonders that have been fulfilled and most importantly provides clear and explicit Biblical tests to reveal apostate signs and wonders all of which the Pentecostal/charismatic movement fails to pass.

    You are a sincere fella, but simply deceived and lacking Biblical understanding and spiritual discernment to distinguish between true and false.

    But miracles happen and it is available to everyone. When you see someone healed for real you will cry. You should try it. If you have ever had a love one sick or dying, I guarantee you will think of being able to help them like Jesus can.It's faith and anyone can do it if they get serious.There is not to lose but everything to gain.    [/QUOTE]
     
    #13 The Biblicist, Oct 17, 2012
  14. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2012
    Messages:
    52,624
    Likes Received:
    2,742
    Faith:
    Baptist
    why are people healed, while others are not?

    jesus healed ALL he touched and worked with, so whats the problem today?
     
    #14 Yeshua1, Oct 17, 2012
(You must log in or sign up to post here.)
Loading...