The Bishop's Authority

Discussion in 'Free-For-All Archives' started by DHK, Aug 1, 2003.

  1. DHK

    DHK
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    Prime Minister is Condemned

    Although I don't agree with same sex marriages, and believe we ought to take our stand against them, I just throw this out to you (Catholics in particular) as to your opinion on the Bishop's actions or words.
     
  2. MikeS

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    Although I don't agree with same sex marriages, and believe we ought to take our stand against them, I just throw this out to you (Catholics in particular) as to your opinion on the Bishop's actions or words. </font>[/QUOTE]To the extent that any lawmaker helps create laws that encourage mortal sin (most directly in this case, sex outside of sacramental marriage), I agree that they risk their eternal salvation. I salute the bishop for speaking truth.
     
  3. trying2understand

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    I agree with what the Bishop said as it is presented. Anyone who encourages another to sin greiviously risks his eternal salvation.

    I agree with him saying it and wish that all Bishops would be vocal about the issue as well.

    Not just on this issue but abortion as well.
     
  4. thessalonian

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    "I think that's something that each person reconciles with their own maker and that's not something that you take to the political arena," Copps said in Edmonton.

    "Every Canadian, regardless of their religion, has to reconcile their beliefs with their god, their Allah, their guru, that's why we live in a country that separates the views of religion from the views of the state." "

    Ah, relativism at its finest. Does the one true God have different views for each individual on this. If their relativistic view were true, then why would they be offended at the Bishops words. Doesn't the Bishop have a right to work things out with his God too and act and speak accordingly. Nope. Not by their standards. Only those without conviction may speak. Surely the Church has a right to speak on societal moral matters. Surely the bishop does. There is always time for the good PM to repent so the Bishop cannot damn him. He is surely in danger of loosing his soul over this if God is alive. Amen to the Bishop, Amen to the Pope's recent document.

    By the way Curtis, I thought sure you would post about the Pope's document and about the goings on in the Episcopalian Church this week, since you are so up on what gets missed every day on this board (see his thread on the new bishop of Boston if you don't understand what I am saying.). Oh, Episcopalians aren't Catholic so I know it doesn't really interest you.

    Blessings
     
  5. Kathryn

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    http://www.excommunication.net/News_home_page/Davis_no_Eucharist.htm

    Source: Sacramento Bee; January 23, 2003

    Sacramento, CA -- Sacramento Bishop William K. Weigand, leader of 500,000 Catholics in Northern California, called on Gov. Gray Davis on Wednesday to renounce his support of abortion or stop taking Holy Communion.

    Speaking at a morning Mass on the 30th anniversary of the landmark U.S. Supreme Court decision that legalized abortion, Weigand told congregants at the Cathedral of the Blessed Sacrament that Davis should refrain from taking communion while he continues to support abortion.

    "As your bishop, I have to say clearly that anyone -- politician or otherwise -- who thinks it is acceptable for a Catholic to be pro-abortion is in very great error, puts his or her soul at risk, and is not in good standing with the church," Weigand said. "Such a person should have the integrity to acknowledge this and choose of his own volition to abstain from receiving Holy Communion until he has a change of heart."

    Receiving Holy Communion is one of the most sacred rites in the Catholic faith. Weigand said afterward that "in general, we do not refuse communion to anyone; we try to instruct people as to when it would not be appropriate."

    Russ Lopez, a spokesman for Davis, said the bishop was "trying to make an example and that's sad. But Governor Davis has said repeatedly that he is proud of the legislation he has signed giving women the right to choose. He will not back down."

    Lopez criticized the bishop for "telling the faithful how to practice their faith."

    Lopez said that Weigand's comments could alienate members of the Catholic Church who support abortion. "There are a lot of Catholics who are pro-choice. Does the bishop want all Catholics to stop receiving Holy Communion?" asked Lopez. "Who's going to be left in church?"

    Weigand said Wednesday evening that he did not contact the Vatican before deciding to publicly chastise the governor. He acknowledged that he was motivated by Davis' response to a challenge by a Sacramento parish priest before Christmas, and by a doctrine by Pope John Paul II criticizing politicians who say they are good Catholics but support abortion.

    Weigand's homily quoted from the papal doctrine released in advance of the 30th anniversary of Roe v. Wade. "Those who are directly involved in lawmaking bodies have a grave and clear obligation to oppose any law that attacks human life," he said.

    At the Mass, Weigand praised Monsignor Edward Kavanagh, who last month told Davis' staff that the governor was not welcome to deliver gifts to St. Patrick's Orphanage. (The children received their gifts from Davis at the Capitol.) Kavanagh asked Davis to renounce his pro-abortion views before visiting.

    The governor's response to Kavanagh was blunt: "I'm unapologetically pro-choice and I'm not changing my position."

    Weigand said Wednesday evening that the confrontation forced him to confront Davis.

    "Ever since the little incident last month, people have been asking questions. They asked 'how can a Catholic be in good standing and still hold that point of view?' I'm saying you can't be a Catholic in good standing and hold that point of view. The governor's position is very public and contrary. ... You can't have it both ways."

    In a press release Wednesday marking the anniversary of Roe v. Wade, the Davis administration claimed credit for California being "the most pro-choice state in America."

    The governor is an active Catholic. He and his wife, Sharon, attend Mass in Southern California. The Davises, who were married originally in a civil ceremony presided over by former state Supreme Court Chief Justice Rose Bird, were married again in the late 1990s in the Catholic Church for their 15th wedding anniversary. The ceremony recognized the marriage in the church's eyes and allowed Davis to resume taking communion.

    "He goes to church and he says his prayers and that's good," said Weigand. "But he's been aggressive on this issue, even boastful. I'm just trying to clarify that he is not in line with the Catholic Church on an issue that the Pope has said is the most important issue of our day."


    God Bless
     
  6. thessalonian

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    Kathryn,

    Bishop Weigand was my Bishop when I lived in Utah. At the time I had the impression that he was orthodox but not really very strong. Boy was I ever wrong (praise God) or perhaps living in liberal California has been a blessing for him. Praise God for someone finally taking a stand against these idiotic Catholic politicians who think God is blind to their crimes.

    Blessings
     
  7. John Gilmore

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    Since these politicians have been repeatedly admonished, why aren't they being excommunicated?
     
  8. DHK

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    Jason Kenny, a member of Parliament for the opposition (and a good Catholic himself), said that if the leaders in government cannot reconcile their religious (Catholic) beliefs with their political actions they ought to step down from their office.

    Whereas the future Prime Minister, Paul Martin (also Catholic) said that his political decisions must take precedence over whatever Catholic beliefs he may hold.
    Unfortunately Catholic beliefs concerning morality don't mean a whole lot with many Catholics. Both Martin and Chretien plan to vote in favor of this bill that allows for homosexual marriages.
    DHK
     
  9. thessalonian

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    Wonder how Bill Clinton (a baptist) would weigh in? Your conclusion is based on the people who make the news. The liberal Catholics. There are many many Catholic who do live their faith in there poliitical lives. So what's your point. By the way, this was bound to have an anti-catholic slant to it.
     
  10. CatholicConvert

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    I still maintain that in the arena of Christian praxis, those things which the Church does are reflective of that which takes place in Heaven. (Heb. 8:5)

    I think, therefore, that it is imperative that the bishop immediately excommunicate not only this legislator, but all who have supported abortion on demand as well. Then he should publish the following press release:

    "Consistent with the authority given by Christ Jesus to the apostles of the Church, I have excommunicated these persons until such time as they repent and reunite themselves to Christ by obedience to the commandments of God. Excommunication is a visible sign of an invisible reality, i.e. that these persons, by their obdurant disobedience and defiance to the teachings of our Lord, have spiritually severed themselves from relationship with God, and if they die in that condition, will be eternally damned. Their only hope lies in the Blessed Sacrament of the Eucharist, of which Christ Himself said that those who partake of it have eternal life. Being banned from participation in Liturgy, and kept from the very Source of Life, there is no hope for their souls at this time. Like their father, Judas, they have betrayed Christ and shall find his reward to be theirs also. Blind to the reality of eternity, they have followed another politician, Pontius Pilate, and have traded their hope of eternity with God for the short sighted and silly vision of the applause of men.

    May God have mercy on their souls and bring them to repentance before it is too late, and the reality their divorce from God, of which their separation from the Lord's Eucharist is but a symbol, becomes an eternal and horrible reality."


    Need to be any clearer?

    Cordially in Christ, through the Theotokos,

    Brother Ed
     
  11. allibobo

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    What is your opinion on the Episcopal Chruch Having an openly gay bishop.AS an episcopalian I don't agree on having openly gay bishop.I feel this might split the unity in our chruch.
     
  12. Frank

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    Allibobo:
    Homosexuality is a sin. The Bible teaches this in numerous passages. Lev.18:22, I Cor. 6:9,10, Romans 1:26-30. This man should repent of his wickedness so he will not be lost eternally.
     

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