The book of Jasher-this is holy scripture

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by Martin Luther, Jul 6, 2009.

  1. Martin Luther

    Martin Luther
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2008
    Messages:
    423
    Likes Received:
    0
    http://www.ccel.org/a/anonymous/jasher/home.html

    Chapter One

    And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness, and God created man in his own image.

    And God formed man from the ground, and he blew into his nostrils the breath of life, and man became a living soul endowed with speech.

    And the Lord said, It is not good for man to be alone; I will make unto him a helpmeet.

    And the Lord caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam, and he slept, and he took away one of his ribs, and he built flesh upon it, and formed it and brought it to Adam, and Adam awoke from his sleep, and behold a woman was standing before him.

    And he said, This is a bone of my bones and it shall be called woman, for this has been taken from man; and Adam called her name Eve, for she was the mother of all living.

    And God blessed them and called their names Adam and Eve in the day that he created them, and the Lord God said, Be fruitful and multiply and fill the earth.

    And the Lord God took Adam and his wife, and he placed them in the garden of Eden to dress it and to keep it; and he commanded them and said unto them, From every tree of the garden you may eat, but from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat thereof you shall surely die.

    And when God had blessed and commanded them, he went from them, and Adam and his wife dwelt in the garden according to the command which the Lord had commanded them.

    And the serpent, which God had created with them in the earth, came to them to incite them to transgress the command of God which he had commanded them.

    And the serpent enticed and persuaded the woman to eat from the tree of knowledge, and the woman hearkened to the voice of the serpent, and she transgressed the word of God, and took from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, and she ate, and she took from it and gave also to her husband and he ate.

    And Adam and his wife transgressed the command of God which he commanded them, and God knew it, and his anger was kindled against them and he cursed them.

    And the Lord God drove them that day from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from which they were taken, and they went and dwelt at the east of the garden of Eden; and Adam knew his wife Eve and she bore two sons and three daughters.

    And she called the name of the first born Cain, saying, I have obtained a man from the Lord, and the name of the other she called Abel, for she said, In vanity we came into the earth, and in vanity we shall be taken from it.

    And the boys grew up and their father gave them a possession in the land; and Cain was a tiller of the ground, and Abel a keeper of sheep.

    And it was at the expiration of a few years, that they brought an approximating offering to the Lord, and Cain brought from the fruit of the ground, and Abel brought from the firstlings of his flock from the fat thereof, and God turned and inclined to Abel and his offering, and a fire came down from the Lord from heaven and consumed it.

    And unto Cain and his offering the Lord did not turn, and he did not incline to it, for he had brought from the inferior fruit of the ground before the Lord, and Cain was jealous against his brother Abel on account of this, and he sought a pretext to slay him.

    And in some time after, Cain and Abel his brother, went one day into the field to do their work; and they were both in the field, Cain tilling and ploughing his ground, and Abel feeding his flock; and the flock passed that part which Cain had ploughed in the ground, and it sorely grieved Cain on this account.

    And Cain approached his brother Abel in anger, and he said unto him, What is there between me and thee, that thou comest to dwell and bring thy flock to feed in my land?

    And Abel answered his brother Cain and said unto him, What is there between me and thee, that thou shalt eat the flesh of my flock and clothe thyself with their wool?

    And now therefore, put off the wool of my sheep with which thou hast clothed thyself, and recompense me for their fruit and flesh which thou hast eaten, and when thou shalt have done this, I will then go from thy land as thou hast said?

    And Cain said to his brother Abel, Surely if I slay thee this day, who will require thy blood from me?

    And Abel answered Cain, saying, Surely God who has made us in the earth, he will avenge my cause, and he will require my blood from thee shouldst thou slay me, for the Lord is the judge and arbiter, and it is he who will requite man according to his evil, and the wicked man according to the wickedness that he may do upon earth.

    And now, if thou shouldst slay me here, surely God knoweth thy secret views, and will judge thee for the evil which thou didst declare to do unto me this day.

    And when Cain heard the words which Abel his brother had spoken, behold the anger of Cain was kindled against his brother Abel for declaring this thing.

    And Cain hastened and rose up, and took the iron part of his ploughing instrument, with which he suddenly smote his brother and he slew him, and Cain spilt the blood of his brother Abel upon the earth, and the blood of Abel streamed upon the earth before the flock.

    And after this Cain repented having slain his brother, and he was sadly grieved, and he wept over him and it vexed him exceedingly.

    And Cain rose up and dug a hole in the field, wherein he put his brother's body, and he turned the dust over it.

    And the Lord knew what Cain had done to his brother, and the Lord appeared to Cain and said unto him, Where is Abel thy brother that was with thee?

    And Cain dissembled, and said, I do not know, am I my brother's keeper? And the Lord said unto him, What hast thou done? The voice of thy brother's blood crieth unto me from the ground where thou hast slain him.

    For thou hast slain thy brother and hast dissembled before me, and didst imagine in thy heart that I saw thee not, nor knew all thy actions.

    But thou didst this thing and didst slay thy brother for naught and because he spoke rightly to thee, and now, therefore, cursed be thou from the ground which opened its mouth to receive thy brother's blood from thy hand, and wherein thou didst bury him.

    And it shall be when thou shalt till it, it shall no more give thee its strength as in the beginning, for thorns and thistles shall the ground produce, and thou shalt be moving and wandering in the earth until the day of thy death.

    And at that time Cain went out from the presence of the Lord, from the place where he was, and he went moving and wandering in the land toward the east of Eden, he and all belonging to him.

    And Cain knew his wife in those days, and she conceived and bare a son, and he called his name Enoch, saying, In that time the Lord began to give him rest and quiet in the earth.

    And at that time Cain also began to build a city: and he built the city and he called the name of the city Enoch, according to the name of his son; for in those days the Lord had given him rest upon the earth, and he did not move about and wander as in the beginning.

    And Irad was born to Enoch, and Irad begat Mechuyael and Mechuyael begat Methusael.
     
  2. Thinkingstuff

    Thinkingstuff
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    May 14, 2008
    Messages:
    8,169
    Likes Received:
    0
    What's the point of this post? The Book of Jashar is a fraud. It was most likely written in the 1300's by some Rabbi and was "discovered" in the 1800's. The Mormons like to use this book. The real book which the bible refers is no longer extant.
     
  3. EdSutton

    EdSutton
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2006
    Messages:
    8,755
    Likes Received:
    0
    Actually, this is Holy Scripture!

    This is everything that is even remotely possible to know about the Book of Jasher (a.k.a. 'Jashar' or 'Upright') from the Holy Scripture.

    Anything else is one of three things -

    1.) Some unknown sermons/commentary and/or excerpts on/of some basic Scriptural teachings (Here, I'm being generous.)

    2.) purely unfounded speculation

    3.) or a deliberate fraud, as previously mentioned.

    Ed
     
    #3 EdSutton, Jul 6, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 6, 2009
  4. rbell

    rbell
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2006
    Messages:
    11,103
    Likes Received:
    0
    anyone seriously claiming "the book of 'abcd' is holy scripture" ('abcd' being any book other than one already canonized) is adding to scripture, and has serious theological troubles.
     
  5. Thinkingstuff

    Thinkingstuff
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    May 14, 2008
    Messages:
    8,169
    Likes Received:
    0
    I must say I've read the Pseudopigraphia and enjoyed it but do not consider it scripture even though there are references to it in the NT. However, canon is pretty well established. Certainly if the book of Jashar were real don't you think it would be included in the Neviim? Its not. Note it would have been considered in early Christianity when they were debating these things but there is no evidence of it. Therefore the document was not extant at that time and so it is a later invention.
     
  6. Martin Luther

    Martin Luther
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2008
    Messages:
    423
    Likes Received:
    0

    Jasher is mentioned twice in the O.T. you may be thinking of the book of Enoch mentioned in Jude (also Holy scripture).


    Joshua 10:13
    And the sun stood still, and the moon stayed, until the people had avenged themselves upon their enemies. Is not this written in the book of Jasher? So the sun stood still in the midst of heaven, and hasted not to go down about a whole day.


    2 Samuel 1:18
    (Also he bade them teach the children of Judah the use of the bow: behold, it is written in the book of Jasher.)


    Jude 1:14
    And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,

    It is only through the Holy Spirit that we can know truth. These books teach a lot about God. They teach that we must fear His wrath. Jasher explains more clearly the sins of Sodom and that it was not homosexuality.
     
  7. Thinkingstuff

    Thinkingstuff
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    May 14, 2008
    Messages:
    8,169
    Likes Received:
    0
    Yes but that Jashar is no longer extant. If you studied the source of your document you would find it goes to the 1300 and is writen by a Jewish Rabbi. There is no evidence that its the one referrenced in the OT. Note if you read it how much it takes from 1 Enoch! Jewish mysticism created the copy you now have. Its not scriptures.
     
  8. Martin Luther

    Martin Luther
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2008
    Messages:
    423
    Likes Received:
    0
    Maybe you could point out one of these "theological troubles"?
     
  9. rbell

    rbell
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2006
    Messages:
    11,103
    Likes Received:
    0
    Try the end of Revelation.
     
  10. Martin Luther

    Martin Luther
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2008
    Messages:
    423
    Likes Received:
    0



    I have read that as well, I'm sure this Rabbi did not make this stuff up. I’m sure there was a manuscript from which he was working. The book is way to detailed to be make believe. Also, it shows things like the fact that Shem was Melchizedek which was only speculation with the accepted cannon. It also gives very specific dates of births and deaths. My favorite part of Jasher are the details of Abrahams early life.
     
  11. Martin Luther

    Martin Luther
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2008
    Messages:
    423
    Likes Received:
    0
    :laugh::laugh:
     
  12. EdSutton

    EdSutton
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2006
    Messages:
    8,755
    Likes Received:
    0
    Regardless of what you are "sure" of, there is not one single hint that Shem was Melchizedek, in canonical Scripture.

    [Edited to add] In fact, Scripture specifically says that Melchizedek, alone, was "without father, without mother, without genealogy, having neither beginning of days, nor end of life", something not said about Shem, who was the son of Noah. Even all these things are said about God, the eternal Son, our Lord Jesus Christ, in the 'human' sense!

    Thus this purported identification of Shem with Melchizedek is not even remotely close! :(

    Ed
     
    #12 EdSutton, Jul 8, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 8, 2009
  13. rbell

    rbell
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2006
    Messages:
    11,103
    Likes Received:
    0
    Maybe you find it funny that God warned against adding to the words of His book. Me...I tend to take those things seriously.

    But hey, whatever cranks your tractor. If your "bible" has no back cover...that's between you and God. Mine does.
     
  14. Thinkingstuff

    Thinkingstuff
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    May 14, 2008
    Messages:
    8,169
    Likes Received:
    0
    Have you read the book of Jubilees? In fact, I suggest that you make comparisons between the two books. What you will find is this 200 bc view of what the Torah is speaking about. If there is a source book it is either the book of Jubilees itself or a compilation of it. Note what the bible itself discusses is in the book of Jashar. Not a re-itteration of what is already in the Torah as we see here that steals form the book of Jubilees. Jashar according to the bible has specific referrences to battles and songs. I have a copy of the book of Jashar and can trace its view straight to the Pseudopigraphia. So its a rehashing of 2 century bc views of the Torah most likely by the Jewish Rabbi I previoiusly mentioned. Ask yourself why the Mormons are so keen on the book.
     
  15. billwald

    billwald
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2000
    Messages:
    11,414
    Likes Received:
    0
    >Maybe you find it funny that God warned against adding to the words of His book.

    Referring to Moses closing the canon and giving standards for additional material in Deut 13?
     
  16. tinytim

    tinytim
    Expand Collapse
    <img src =/tim2.jpg>

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2003
    Messages:
    11,250
    Likes Received:
    0


    This fact alone shows that the copy of Jasher you have is flawed...
    Read what Gill writes about Melchizedek

    I have read the book of Jasher (probably the same copy you have) and I enjoyed it.. but I wouldn't consider it canonical...

     
  17. Tom Butler

    Tom Butler
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2005
    Messages:
    9,031
    Likes Received:
    0
    I've read the book of Jasher, and you can find it on line quite easily. Nobody should make any claim regarding its canonicity or even its accuracy--and certainly not that it's the book of Jasher mentioned in Joshua.

    However, I found it enormously interesting reading.

    For instance, Genesis genalogy suggests that Noah and Abraham were contemporaries for a while; Jasher relates that Noah and Shem taught
    Abraham about their God.

    Another story relates that it was Esau who killed Nimrod. And that because Esau was running from Nimrod's soldiers that he became exhausted and hungry, thus making him an easy target for Jacob to take his birthright.

    True stories? Don't know. But I also found fascinating the books of Adam and Noah, also available on line.
     
  18. Thinkingstuff

    Thinkingstuff
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    May 14, 2008
    Messages:
    8,169
    Likes Received:
    0
    Note my copy and probably yours has this to say of itself in the introduction:

     
  19. annsni

    annsni
    Expand Collapse
    Administrator
    Administrator

    Joined:
    May 30, 2006
    Messages:
    20,193
    Likes Received:
    374
    Just because another book is mentioned in Scripture, does that mean that it is supposed to be part of the cannon? No. The cannon of Scripture is the set of books that God has ordained and written by His breath. Yes, there are other books and writings mentioned and they are historically important but they are not written by God and therefore not to be part of Scripture's cannon,.
     
  20. rbell

    rbell
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2006
    Messages:
    11,103
    Likes Received:
    0
    Considering your low view of Scripture, I'm not going to even go to the effort to figure out what you're trying to say.
     

Share This Page

Loading...