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Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Jarthur001, Jun 25, 2008.
So far no takers on this down in another thread.
That is very good. I can see the evidences of Reform sotierology in Elihu's speech.
But in another way, I can see that it could be read into the text rather than out of it. Let's consider:
1) God did NOT give a regenerative (that is, "indwelling") Holy Spirit to the OT saints. Therefore the idea that they were "regenerated" unto "spiritual men" as you understand just never happened -- which is how all those "mysteries" of the OT were not understood until the new. It's all part of 1Cor 2.
2) The notion that "God doesn't give an account" does not have to do with salvation but with the specific incidents that happened to Job's life. The proof of is found in the verses that immediately follow. God uses these incidents to GET OUR ATTENTION (17-22) when they don't perceive or trust Him via His more gentle tactics (14-15).
3) And verse 23 tells us that God uses a "messenger" to restore the poor man's spirit as a child's. Pretty interesting, eh? Kinda like what David said about believers "rise up on eagle's wings."
4) I must admit that, in this instance, the spirit seems to be "restored" before the prayer of repentance is uttered. But keeping in mind that the Holy Spirit never indwelt in the OT but was "sent" only after Christ's resurrection, this likely shows BELIEF in God followed by probably the most eloquent sinner's prayer found anywhere in scripture (27-28)!
5) And this all goes to show that the "recipient" really has a hand in salvation, does it not? "If any man shall [repent], ... He will deliver his soul from going into the pit." Salvation "conditioned upon" repentance, James.
I know you won't immediately agree with this view but I think it will help if you consider the numerous similar apearances of just this pattern throughout scripture. God does speak "gently" at first -- "the wind listeth where it will." But we certainly see many who are "converted from a foxhole" or a deathbed when they hear the gospel. But in every case, we also see a "sinner's prayer" followed by receiving the promises of God
Example: the thief on the cross "Lord remember me when you come into Your kingdom" followed by "Today thou shalt be with Me in paradise." It wasn't the reverse, was it, James. It wasn't "Today thou shalt be with Me in paradise" followed by "Remember me when You come into Your kingdom" (as if the thief was "elect" and had only to repent.)
No rejoinders? Am I to suppose that your next article will quote me under the "Fairness Clause" of the Voter's Rights Act? :laugh:
However, don't buy a car based on that forth coming check.
Thanks for your reply
I replied to that thread
Try?? Does the Holy Spirit only TRY to show you the truth?? :laugh: Isn't He, as God, "totally sovereign" over your spiritual life? James, James, James ... what you cite is a story of God speaking "tenderly," the "forcefully," to us free willers who -- bye-and-bye -- do pay attention, repent, and are given salvation in Christ. why you want to make a whole "Calvinist production" of it is beyond me. :laugh: