The book of life- Rev 3

ituttut
you are talking to the wrong person I did not write the above post someone else did

Even though I still say you are wrong.

 

Thanks for your reply RightFromWrong. All I did was reply to what post September 04, 2005 08:31 PM contained (second from top on this page). It was in answer to the first post on this page, which was a post by me.

If I am wrong then Paul must be mistaken of what He was told by Christ Jesus. Just because we are Baptist doesn't mean we are all going to be placed in the same part of the Body of Christ. Perhaps I may be in the little toe, and you in the shoulder, but I do believe we are one in Him for we believe on the Lord Jesus Christ for our salvation. Christian faith, ituttut.

 

I think the discussion of the Book of Life is like arguing about how many angels can dance on the head of a pin. It seems clear to me that the Book of Life is a metaphorical way of saying God knows his own, not that he has to have a literal, published book to keep track. Why not a database of life?

 

It's probably a very advanced book computer, and I'm not kidding. And, yes, the Book of Life is literal. I know, because my name is written there. God said so.

 

And, what if each person who was ever conceived has their name written in the Book of Life, and if they die without accepting Jesus Christ as their Personal Savior, THEN is when their name gets blotted out - at the Great White Throne judgment? Anyway, it's a thought.

 

No one is ever blotted out of the book of life. that verse is being misinterpeted.

 

Article from John Macarthur, part of the whole page is on the first page of this thread.


John further states, "And I WILL NOT blot his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before His angels" (Rev. 3:5). Many people are confused by that phrase. They say, "Does that mean that you could get your name blotted out of the book of life?" NO! the text says, "I WILL NOT blot his name out of the book of life" (emphasis added). We are secure in Christ.

In John's day, kings in every area had a registry. All the people's names were put into that registry. When anyone committed a criminal act, his name was removed from the registry. Our Lord is saying "The world may cross you off its lists, kings may remove your name for the crime of Christianity, but I will never blot your name out of My book." That doesn't mean you can't be sure; it means you can be sure. You are secure in Him. It doesn't imply that God takes names out; it emphasizes that He keeps them in! Aren't you glad that your salvation is guaranteed? He says, "I will confess his name before my Father and before His angels." When I get to heaven, Jesus is going to say, "Father, angels, here is John MacArthur." Wow!

 

I went to an Internet source & here is what John MacArthur said:

Christ will not blot your name out of His book if you put your faith in Him.

Unbelievers will have their names blotted out.

 

RightFromWrong.

Rev. 3:5 tells us, Christ promises us, IF any person OVERCOMETH(victory) over them, CHrist will not removed victory saint's name from the book of life. It speaks of our future final victory after we make the race or enter into the narrow road, then our name would be right there in the book of life.

Christ have his rights to take person's name out of the book of life in his power. IF a person sinned or failed to covercometh them, person's name might be blot out of the book.

During in the wilderness period 40 years after God freed Hebrews from slave. People were sinned against God. God told Moses, He can blot their names out of the book, if they sinned against Him - Ex. 32:32-33.

Rev. 3:5 tells us very clear it is conditional throughout our faithful, spiritual warfare life. If we victory over them at our death or Christ comes. We shall be victory, and clothed of white garment or robe, and our name shall be written in the book of life. Our victory is not yet reach, because we are right now in the spiritual warfare - Matt. 7:13-14. We must be endure all the way till the end then shall be saved - Matt. 10:22; & 24:13. If we give up in the midst of our life, and do not endure all the way till our death or Christ comes, then we might not received white garament or robe, and being written our name in the book of life- shall be cast away into everlasting puishment - Matt. 25:26-30.

There are so much overwhelming evidences in the Bible telling us of conditional with warning about our soul.

Calvinists and baptists both do not believe in conditional salvation. They believe in 'security salvation' or 'perservance of the saints'.

Bible teaches us so much overwhelming that we must fight with our faith throughout our life. God does not make us robot. God expects us that we ought to obey and to serve him. God does not force us to do it. It is our decision to obey and serve or refuse to obey God.

Also, throughout in chapter 2 and chapter 3 of Revelation talking lot on conditional with warnings. No way that we can afford to ignore Christ's instruction of warning. We ought take Christ's word, and obey Him.

In Christ
Rev. 22:20 -Amen!

 

Ladyeagle.... you will have to show the link or the whole article or else how do we not know that you took that way out of context. Below is the whole post form one of his articles. He will not contridict himself. So I have reason to believe you took that out of context

Here is John MacArthurs view on this subject which makes alot of sense. I'm ALL for what makes sense. Hope this helps.

E.The book of life (Rev. 3:5)

Revelation 3:5 gives us the fifth delight of an overcomer: "He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels." Here are two more features for an overcomer.

1. Clothed in white raiment

White raiment refers to righteousness, purity, holiness, and glory. We're going to be clothed in white, and that's Christ's color. When He comes out of heaven riding on a white horse, wearing a white robe, we will be with him on white horses and dressed in white robes. Because of His own righteousness, He clothes us in His own holiness, purity, and righteousness.

2. Confessed before God

John further states, "And I WILL NOT blot his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before His angels" (Rev. 3:5). Many people are confused by that phrase. They say, "Does that mean that you could get your name blotted out of the book of life?" NO! the text says, "I WILL NOT blot his name out of the book of life" (emphasis added). We are secure in Christ.

In John's day, kings in every area had a registry. All the people's names were put into that registry. When anyone committed a criminal act, his name was removed from the registry. Our Lord is saying "The world may cross you off its lists, kings may remove your name for the crime of Christianity, but I will never blot your name out of My book." That doesn't mean you can't be sure; it means you can be sure. You are secure in Him. It doesn't imply that God takes names out; it emphasizes that He keeps them in! Aren't you glad that your salvation is guaranteed? He says, "I will confess his name before my Father and before His angels." When I get to heaven, Jesus is going to say, "Father, angels, here is John MacArthur." Wow!
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To me scripture reveals the Christian is in the “book of Life”, as well as others. In the Word of God, we find the Holy Spirit presenting the "Word", Christ Jesus, the Only Begotten Son of God the Father. We in the Body of Christ are in the "Word" by the Grace of God the Father, coming through Jesus Christ, being sealed in. We have already been judged innocent and cannot be blotted out of the Book of Life, for we are written in Blood, for the Life is in the Blood.

Those to be judged are judged out of the Books, not the Book of Life.

We overcame nothing, but are in the “One” that did overcome”. Only those not in this dispensation of God, this hidden time of God, will have to overcome, or do a work. Once by the blood of Jesus Christ they enter the Book, I don’t believe they can be blotted out. I believe all before, and those after our rapture, must endure until the end, with the exception of the 144,000 of the 12 tribes of Israel, those that will be spreading the gospel for that day. Christian faith, ituttut

 

So where is YOUR link?

 

So where is YOUR link? </font>[/QUOTE]Here's my link, where's yours? FYI:

LINK HERE

BTW, it is against Copyright Law to post the whole article.

 

I didn't post the whole article by the way.

And I noticed you DID take it out of context.
The article is to long to post so I encourage others to read the whole thing, instead of taking Ladyeagles word for it.

John MacAthur isn't going to contridict himself. he is one of my faviote So I had a feeling you were wrong

 

What part of "putting your faith in Christ" do you not understand?

Again, where is your link?

 

This is from some work earlier done on the Book of Life. Hope it helps to clarify some things for some of you...


The following are general comments and observations regarding, the phrase “book of life”. The exact phrase only appears eight times in the KJV New Testament (Philp 4:3; Rev 3:5; 13:8; 17:8; 20:12,15; 21:27; 22:19) and not at all in the Old Testament. Unfortunately, many commentators draw a general parallel between the “book of life” in the NT and the “book of the living” and the “book which thou hast written” in the OT (Psa 69:28; Exod 32:32,33). The ancient book of the living was commonly used to record ALL the living residents of a particular city or town. When someone died or was found guilty of certain crimes, their names were blotted out of the book. To have one’s name blotted out meant that they no longer held a position in the community. This is the sense in which the term seems to have been used in Old Testament times and in many ancient cultures as well. Every citizen was listed in the book until they died or were removed from the book and their position in society as punishment for a serious crime. It is likely that this practice may have been alluded to in Rev 3:5. If the persecution that was occurring in other cities reaches Sardis, there is a danger that some of the citizens who had believed on the Lord Jesus and were remaining faithful could possibly be stricken from the cities “book of the living” and lose their rights of citizenship. Certainly believers were being persecuted and killed in other areas (Rev 2:13). By contrast, the “overcomers” who had believed on the Lord Jesus, would never have their names taken out of God’s “book of life.” It is important to notice that their “names” are in the “book of life” and Rev 3:5 clearly states that their names will never be taken out. The Greek combines the two words ou mh (oo may) to stress the impossibility of such a thing (by no means, not ever). Some identify the “overcomers” of Rev 3:5 as a special class of saints who remain faithful in the midst of wickedness in spite of the fact that the Apostle John has defined an “overcomer” as one who is “born of God” and who “believeth” (1John 5:4-5). The fact that they are clothed in white raiment is also an indication that they are clothed with the righteousness which comes on the basis of the shed blood (Rev 7:9,13,14) and not any supposed personal holiness that relates to their names being present in “the book.” Some have understood this passage as an indication that a person’s name could be blotted out, even though it states just the opposite – their names will never be blotted out. And as has already been noted, the passage in Rev 22:19 does not say that their “names” will be taken out of the book but that God will take away their “part.” More on that later.

The only passage outside of Revelation where the phrase “book of life” is used in Philp 4:3 where Paul tells us that the names of his “fellowlabourers” are recorded “in the book of life.” This is a general reference that gives little help regarding the interpretation of either Rev 3:5 or 22:19. Jesus does refer to the fact that the names of the disciples are “written in heaven” as being a good cause for rejoicing (Luke 10:20). Nor does this passage address the potential of being blotted out of the book of life.

One common mistake is to understand the OT references to a book containing the names of God’s people as being the same as the “book of life”. Reading our understanding of new truths that have been revealed in this age of grace back into OT passages fails to account for the progressive nature of revelation – God has revealed His truth in stages. Not only is there no direct OT equivalent for the NT church it should be abundantly clear that the OT saints had little if any understanding of the violent death of the Messiah. Even the Lord’s own disciples failed to understand the reason for the cross until sometime after the fact. To indiscreetly read NT concepts back into an OT figure is a serious interpretive error. It seems best to understand the OT references to being blotted out of the book as referring to judgment in a very general way and not necessarily eternal loss. It is likely that the early concept of being blotted out refers to physical death as mentioned earlier (see Exod 32:32,33; Psa 69:28; Isa 4:3). ISBE notes “To be blotted out of the Book of Life is to be cut off from God's favor, to suffer an untimely death, as when Moses pleads that he be blotted out of God's book - that he might die, rather than that Israel should be destroyed (Exo 32:32; Psa 69:28).” (NOTE: ISBE, International Standard Bible Encyclopedia is available as a free downloadable module with E-Sword from www.e-sword.net). This understanding then has Moses saying, “Don’t kill them for their sin, but forgive them. If you are going to kill someone, kill me instead.” God in essence replies, “I will not judge you for their sin, but I will judge the guilty.” Yes, this is a loose paraphrase, but based on the ancient concept of a “book of the living” it fits much better than trying to make the “book of the living” equivalent to “The Book of Life”. Further, if that was the parallel, are we to understand Moses as saying, “God if you will forgive them... but if not I want to be separated from you in Hell for all eternity”?!?! Were the OT saints not eternally secure on the basis of their faith in what God had revealed? Abraham was justified by faith, not works. Could Moses then be lost on the basis of this kind of a request? Far better to understand being “blotted out” in Exod 32:32 (also Psa 69:28) as a simple reference to physical death. Some of the other OT references to names being recorded and preserved would be best understood as referring to participation in the covenant blessings for the Jews (Isa 4:3; Ezek 13:9; Dan 12:1 see Deut 28 for the conditional blessings of the Palestinian Covenant).

There are five other passages in Revelation where the exact phrase is used and these should be considered as well. In Rev 13:8 we read that the “earth-dwellers” (the Greek emphasizes that they are living for this world, not the next) will worship the beast and that their “names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.” The Greek is not clear as to when names are written in the book. What is clear is that the names of the “earth-dwellers” (a common term in Rev) are not recorded in the book of life. There is no indication that they were once there and then blotted out as some have taught.

In Rev 17:8 we read of the earth-dwellers “whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world.” This reference gives an indication that the names that are recorded in the book of life were written “from the foundation of the world”. This coincides perfectly with Eph 1:4-5 which tells us that believers were chosen “in him before the foundation of the world” and “predestinated unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to Himself”. The only three commonly suggested times for being written in the book are at birth, at salvation, or before the foundation of the world. Scripture seems to give a clear answer on this question based on this passage. Some have suggested that the book of life may contain the names of everyone ever born and then when they die without Christ, their names are then removed. The biggest problem with this explanation is that the names of the “earth-dwellers” were never in the book of life and there is no indication that any names are ever blotted out.

In Rev 20:12,15 and 21:27 we find that those who’s names are not written in the book of life are cast into the lake of fire. In 20:12, “the books” are opened. From the context, these “books” seem to be a record of the deeds of all unbelievers of all ages. The are judged righteously and on the basis of their works, they are justly condemned to eternity in the lake of fire. Verse 15 tells us that those cast into the lake of fire were not found in the book of life. There is no indication that any believers are present at this “Great White Throne” judgment of God at the end of the thousand years. This is a judgement of unbelievers according to their works. It is not to determine whether or not they are saved – it is to vindicate God’s righteousness in condemning them and possibly to determine the degree of their suffering (Luke 12:47-48). There is no indication from the context that anyone present at this judgement goes anywhere but the lake of fire. The presence of the book of life seems to be for the purpose of providing further validation of their lost condition.

In Rev 21:27 we find that the only ones who can enter the new Jerusalem are those who’s names “are written in the Lamb’s book of life.”

Specifically, in Rev 22:19 the KJV reads, “God shall take away his part out of the book of life”. I am not going to discuss the textual issues here, but I am aware of them. In any case, it does not say that God will take his “name” out of the book (as already noted by someone else). What does it mean if God will take away his “part” out of the book of life? The best I can come up with is the book of life may also contain some record of a believer’s good works. We know that the books from which the dead are judged contain a record of their works. It may be that for those who tamper with the words of Revelation (specifically “the words of the prophecy of this book”) there will be some loss of reward in heaven.

Whatever the passage means, it cannot mean that a believer could lose his salvation. We are kept secure by the power of God and held secure in both the hand of the Father and the Son (1Pet 1:5; John 10:28-30). Always interpret an unclear passage in light of the many clear passages on the subject, never the inverse.

Hope this helps some! I cannot seem to give a short answer to difficult questions. I know this is long, but I am unwilling to quickly gloss over a difficult passage with a quick answer that only considers a few of the other passages that relate. Nor am I willing to express my opinion without giving the Biblical basis for such an opinion on a passage. If Scripture does not speak directly to an issue, then we may be free to share a personal preference, but if the Word of God is clear, we must clearly present what it says and then pronounce, “Thus saith the Lord”! Anything else is certainly much less than authoritative.

 

I never thought it was a difficult question I'm not the one with the shaky foundation.

thanks for the info though.

 

Again, where's your link, RFW? Plagarism is not acceptable.

 

To tell you the truth I went back on google to find it and I can't if you can please pm me with it. Sorry, I'm pretty sure I didn't copy the whole thing, since there was more to it than that.