The Bride of Christ

Unless you can show me how the gospel of the kingdom is the same as the gospel of grace through faith apart from works then all you have here is an unsubstantiated statement of opinion.

And it's going to be awfully hard to show the two are the same message as one is by God's grace through a one-time faith apart from any works other than the finished works of Christ on the cross. And the other is a life-long process of faithfulness and obedience. Those two messages simply aren't the same thing.

No I simply know the difference between works and no works, and understand those two things don't compliment each other, but contradict each other.

That would be purgatory and that's not what we believe. So this is just more emotionalism.

And all you can do is keep trying to put words in my mouth that I've never said. You are very good at that. ALL saved people are a part of the body of Christ. That's what Scripture tells us. However Scripture also tells us that not the entire body is used to make the bride. We have to believe ALL the Bible not just the parts that agree with man-made traditions and teachings!

 

Jump, you can't fix stupid. I'm learning that more and more. If you refuse to accept the obvious there's nothing left for me to say. Sorry.

 

Again there was NOTHING obvious in that Scripture you quoted. Nothing that even suggested a spiritually dead condition in Israel. Now you can either come up with a text or some texts that show this to be the case. If not your entire theology crumbles, because your entire theology is built around the "assumption" that Israel was spiritually dead. However that is simply not the case. I have talked to a lot of people and no one to date has been able to show Israel is spiritually dead. They end up running away from the conversation or simply revert to name calling and emotionalism as you and others have in this thread!

Deal with Scripture or just admit error.

 

That's because you refuse to accept the Truth and people are flabbergasted by your refusal to rightly divide the Word of God and accept the Truth. Everytime someone answers your question, they are labeled as teaching error. How does it feel to be the only person who knows all of the answers on the BB, Cutter asked, with tongue firmly placed in cheek.

 

No that's because no one has shown any yet. You certainly haven't. You put a verse forward that doesn't even contain the phrase spiritually dead and doesn't even speak of that context and you try and use it as proof.

If you want to prove that Israel was spiritually dead then just come up with a verse that says as much. If your theology is Truth as you claim it is this shouldn't be a very difficult task.

The only thing your verse equated with belief is living water so at best you have the opposite of that to start with and that's dead water, but nothing about being spiritually dead. That is an assumption that you and others make on the gospels and I'm just not willing to build an entire theology on assumption. And just to add even more proof that this verse isn't talking about grace through faith apart from works the "believe" verb is a present active verb. Faith that allows one to receive everlasting life is a one-time faith not a life-long faith. You need just believe one time and the matter is over and done with.

The "believe" discussed in your verse is a life-long faith. So we are talking about apples and oranges.

Now do you care to try again? This really shouldn't be that difficult.

 

If it's so obvious, it should be easy to show.

 

I posted it.

You didn't like it.

So, you claim I didn't post it.

Just because you don't like it doesn't mean that I didn't post it.

You even discussed it. You said (paraphrase) "Just because Jesus is a lamb, and lambs are clean animals, God didn't really mean that clean animals are clean."

I showed you the passage where goats are called clean by God.

Then, we looked in Matthew 25 which is a judgment of works.

So, unless you think that you can earn or lose your spiritual salvation based on works, goats are a) clean animals and b) saved, but with bad works.

 

And Jesus is a type of the Passover lamb.

Guess what else could be used for Passover?

Exodus 12:5: Your lamb shall be without blemish, a male of the first year: ye shall take it out from the sheep, or from the goats:

 

No you don't. However Adam and Eve were husband and wife, so there is no need for the phrase to be there. That's why it's typology. It's a picture of something without direct reference to it.

There's a HUGE difference between what I put forward and what Cutter put forward. The verse that Cutter put forward didn't have anything to do by way of direct reference or even implication to spiritual death.

But since you can't refute the type you make this silly argument that I can't be right because the verse doesn't say "bride of Christ."

The type should be obvious. So if you have a text or texts that prove Israel was spiritually dead then by all means let's examine them. But the text should at least be dealing with what you are trying to prove, which Cutter's was not. :laugh:

 

Exactly! But in the final analysis not everyone is using it properly :laugh:.

Go to the Baptist debate section and there are a couple of threads on there that list some authors.

Actually from what I have heard Nee does say a couple of things about at least two writers Penn I think was one of their names, but I can't remember the other one. But no he didn't begin this theology. There are others that wrote of this before he did. I believe that to be a true statement if I remeber when Nee was alive, but I could be mistaken.

Bottom line is though that we do not have to have a paper trail back to the original teacher for something to be true. If the Bible says it's true then it doesn't matter what the rest of history has said on the matter. It's true. Right?

 

Govett was around about a century before Nee, and Spurgeon had high praises fro him.

Now, if you think works enter into whether you are saved or not, you can ignore the following. If you believe in saved by grace, then this is for you: Revelation 19, the bride of the lamb clothed herself in fine linen. I wonder why she was not clothed in wool? Cotton comes from the earth and it involves toil and labor to produce. The bride has to do stuff; it's not automatic. Many more are simply invited to the marriage supper.

 

Oops. Types come first. Typing comes fast. Fast brings error.

 

2Cor 5:10 Rom 6:23 the "reward for evil deeds is hell".

WE MUST ALL stand before the judgment seat of Christ -- the issue is whether we will be pleasing to Him or not. In Romans 2 Paul spell out in explicit detail those that WILL be viewed as pleasing and those that don't.

Paul tells us that those who fail in that day do not get "heaven anyway".

Romans 2:11-13 makes it clear that God is not biased or prejudiced in this objective review "it is NOT the hearers of the Law that are just before God but the DOERS of the law will be JUSTIFIED" in that FUTURE judgment.

in Christ,

Bob

 

J Jump, I'm really intrigued by your theological take on scripture. I've read many great works on theology by many great men. What is the name of the great man of God who teaches this idea of two salvations? Can you give me the name of a book I can read or a web address where I can see this for myself? Surly such a perfect understanding such as you have is the result of years of study at the feet of such a great man. Please tell me.