"The Call of God" OR "The Calls of God?"

The Psalmist believed that every sinner was responsible for his own sins. God placed the ideas if not the words on David's lips. God places responsibility on all sinners and requires that they, in their own heart and will, turn from their waywardness. Psalm 7:11 says, 'God is angry with the wicked everyday. If he turn not, {the sinner is required in his own soul to turn from his sins} God will wet His sword and bend His bow to make it ready.' (no regeneration is spoken of or needed before a sinner can repent).

Once the Gospel is heard through the Word it is automatically attended by the Spirit to call sinners to repentance. One call of the Gospel with no partiality allowed in God's Divine economy of justice.

 

That is what is so wrong with Arminianism - it teaches that God shows partiality to the person who, in and of themselves by their own bootstraps, can muster up the necessary "want to" to repent and believe as opposed to another person who is unable to muster up the necessary "want to".

Arminianism also makes Almighty God responsive to man, the Creator responsive to His creation. Arminianism makes puny, sin-soaked man sovereign over salvation.

Arminianism is a false teaching. Period.

 

Ken H,

Please, do not try to snow job me. How about you really dealing with my post as to Psalm 7:11.

First, Arminian believers do not tell sinners to lift themselves up by their own bootstraps. All sinners are required to do is to really believe in Jesus for their hope of salvation. [Acts 2:21; Acts 16:31; John 3:16] We go by the Book not your 'bootstraps allegations.'

Secondly, we are not partial, as you suggest, because one sinner believes and another one remains in unbelief. If they don't 'muster up some want to' that is what Hell is all about. Don't blame God or Arminians; sinners will, in Hell, blame not you or me but themselves.

Thirdly, Arminian Christians do not make God responsible to man; every living soul is responsible to Almighty God. He set the plan of salvation. The sinner either believes it or perishes in Hell forever. God sets the rules and the consequences.

Apparently, you are still withering in you wrong concept of Total Depravity. We are not ' . . . puny, sin soaked sinners.' God speaking through David said, 'Thou hast made man a little lower than the angels, and has crowned him with glory and honor. Thou has made him to have dominion over the works of his hands; Thou has put all things under his feet.' The concept of us being ' . . . a little lower than angels' is a rather lofty position for men and women to be placed. Yes, we need to deal with our sin; but when the Spirit convinces us of our need of Christ and we invite Him in, we become the sons of the living God. [I John 3:2; John 1:12] And guess what, Ken, our position before God changes not to a sinner saved by grace only but our authority is higher than His angelic hosts. Would your acquaintances rather be an angel rather than one with Christ? Notice [John 17:11] ' . . . that they may be one, as we are.' [John 17:21] 'That they all may be one; as Thou, Father, art in Me, and I in Thee, that they also may be one in us.' Once we have Christ within our lives we no longer are relegated to 'puny or sin soaked.'

Christ in you is your hope of glory.

 

As you will note Bro. Ray, and as Bro. Ken has already pointed out, that in the KJV that is in italics is added as an interpretative tool in strengthening the text, though this is not needed it was put there to give a smoother reading and 'better' understanding of the passage; whereas the words 'with the wicked' is that found in italics we can remove them and we have the following:

God judgeth the righteous, and God is angry every day.

This, rather than making a distinction between God's anger being on the 'wicked' shows God's chastisement upon his children, the rest of the context of the Psalm then is understood to mean that which is deliverance into persecution, affliction, or even being removed from this world by death because of the rebellious nature against God's will. This passage is no more than support for the fact that God chastises as many as he Loves.

Hope that helps you to understand the passage a little better.

God Bless.
Bro. dallas

 

It doesn't matter what I post, Bill, as you would still say the same thing. In fact, regardless of what anyone posts, you will say that no one has refuted your false teaching.

 

Brother Dallas,

I checked the word, 'wicked' in Psalm 7:11 and found the Hebrew word, 'rasha' or 'rawshaw'. How can we just toss out the word wicked, which can mean, 'morally wrong, bad person, or ungodly?'

A correct translation could read, 'God judgeth the righteous, and God is angry with the ungodly every day.'

The Hebrew word for angry is 'zawam' or 'zaam meaning foaming at the mouth, enraged, or indignation.

'

 

Bro. Ray,

The italics mean those words are added and are not in the original, that is how we can put out the word 'wicked.' It is not needed to make the statement that is made in Ps. 7.11, but was only added by translators in a decision made according to what they thought the passage was saying.

The passage in the original then reads and speaks of the righteous. If it is true then that God is angry every day the object of this anger (as given) is the righteous, thus the need for the saints to constantly seek forgiveness for the sin nature they yet possess. Also, for God to be angry with the righteous daily is in line with scripture when it says things like 'his wrath abideth on the wicked' (unbelievers). Though this would not be sufficient for brethren in the free-will or Arminian camps, this is enough for me to dispell the myth that God's love must be felt by all people or else he is unjust. Further, this love is felt to the degree that God's common Grace (mercy) permits such men to enjoy otherwise prosperous lives etc.

God Bless.
Bro. Dallas

 

Brother Dallas,


I am not a Hebrew scholar so I am not much help with Psalm 7:11. In my King James Version, the words that are italicized are 'with the wicked.' I think the reason they added these words is because contextually this is the only way it makes sense.

'God judgeth the righteous, and God is angry WITH THE WICKED every day. Then God immediately continues by saying, 'If he {THE WICKED} turn not, He will wet His sword; He hath bent His bow, and made it ready. He hath also prepared for him the instruments of death; He ordaineth His arrows against the persecutors.' By adding THE WICKED the thought is flowing.

I don't believe it means that God is angry with the righteous everyday. Ardent Christians don't want to wilfully disobey the Lord and we try, the Lord being our Helper, to walk in all the 'light' that He gives to us. I know He is not angry with me everyday, but I am saddened in remembrance when I have stepped out of line with His will and pleasure.

I too, think that God offers one call of the Gospel to those who hear or read the great truth of the Gospel unto salvation. God attends His words and does not have to be dependent on any preacher of the Word of truth. What about a tract? What about a witness to the Gospel offered over the neighbor's fence? God is always at work, we just most of the time think that He is not active. Probably, this too, is another stratagem of the evil one.

Many blessing to you and yours, brother Dallas.

Ray

 

Originally posted by Bro. Bill:

That is why I don't use these, though I often come across as being arrogant or 'thinking' my view is the only acceptable view, I would rather plainly display on the table to all concerned what I believe, whether you are changed because of it, or whether you battle against me until the Lord does return is no siginificance to me, if the Lord wishes to show you the truth of his doctrine he will, if I am in error and he wishes to show me he will, so I just don't say things like that because all truth is revealed only by the Holy Spirit and it makes no difference if 'i change your mind, or not' I am not in a competition in which at the end I shall win because I have prosletized very many I shall be rewarded because of my adherance to the truth and because of this I am judged by some to be 'arrogant' why? because that is a cop-out that affords the person using it the ability to 'disregard' the truth.

The message today is "don't proclaim nothing as truth" everything could be true, we won't know until we get there so we have mangle the word of God and declare it as so much speculation, hey, but this gives us more stage time in which to sell ourselves and what a fine worker we are...don't it

Thanks for the prayers Brother Ray, I will respond to your post later, I am mowing the lawn and am on 'break'....later.

Bro. Dallas

 

What is frustrating, Bill, is that I put quite a bit of effort into explaining my position on John chapter 12 and you give me the back of your hand and accuse me of not answering your argument. I am sorry that my rhetorical skills are not up to snuff for you to realize when I am answering your argument. I thought I was answering your argument. Please forgive me for my failure.

It is plainly obvious to me now that I am unable to address our arguments in a manner that will be satisfactory to you so that you will not charge me with not answering your arguments. I wish I knew how to do so, but I don't. I am sorry. Please forgive me.

[ May 09, 2003, 07:09 PM: Message edited by: KenH ]

 

This will be my last statement about Psalm 7:11, Brother Dallas, the translators must have had good reason to place in the context these words. 'God is angry with the wicked everyday.' Shall we agree with you or them?

 

Psalms 7

Strong's says that Shiggaion means a 'rambling' poem so it is sung by David before or unto God. While I would not dogmatically hold any to this, meaning you are welcome to take the word of the translators over mine if you want; but I maintain that the words do not need to be added to clarify anything in that Psalm.

Here is the way I read the Psalm after many hours of finding comfort in its words not too many years ago in my own life:

Vss. 1-9 is the prayer of repentance because of the possibility of secret sins, note:

7:1 ¶<<Shiggaion of David, which he sang unto the LORD, concerning the words of Cush the Benjamite.(Hitcock calls Shiggaion
'a song of trouble or comfort ')>> O LORD my God, in thee do I put my trust: save me from all them that persecute me, and deliver me: (Gill and Clarke agree that all who would live Godly lives in Christ will experience persecution from those who are of the world).
2 Lest he tear my soul like a lion, rending it in pieces, while there is none to deliver. (David recognizes there is none but God to deliver; what is said by David of his 'enemy' (Cush the Benjamite, though I am not familiar with the incident, David uses this name; Spurgeon says of it: 'It appears probable that Cush the Benjamite had accused David to Saul of treasonable conspiracy against his royal authority.') [Treasury of David Psalm 7, p.35]. Scripture tells us: 1 Peter 5:8  ¶Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:
The operations of the devil are to tear our soul, rending it in pieces, and we know there are none to deliver, thus we too when are assailed upon by the adversary cry unto our Father. We then seek for a hearing at the Throne of Grace that the grievances that are against us may be displayed openly to us, that would enter into a Godly repentance, such that,
3 O LORD my God, if I have done this; if there be iniquity in my hands;
4 If I have rewarded evil unto him that was at peace with me; (yea, I have delivered him that without cause is mine enemy {being taken together such that if that which is spoken in slander is true of me and I have performed the evil of such that one who is not my enemy I have imagined him to be so in my mind and have worked against him and have slandered his name and have operated in all ways contrary to his peacefulness displayed to me, if this be true of me then Lord,}
5 Let the enemy persecute my soul, and take it; yea, let him tread down my life upon the earth, and lay mine honour in the dust. Selah. (Strong's tells us this is a pause, as a musical pause, while Gill reports this to men 'true' accordingly; so then if the heart of David is found to have wronged his friend, he who held in peace their acquaintance, then he is resolved to the affliction which should befall him)
6 Arise, O LORD, in thine anger, lift up thyself because of the rage of mine enemies: and awake for me to the judgment that thou hast commanded. (you may happily, or not happily, note that the words 'to' and 'that' are also entered here in italics, thus they are not found in the Greek manuscript, but again are added by the translators. Note also what the passage says..."Arise, O Lord, in thine anger, lift up thyself because of the rage of my enemies:..." what is it that David is saying here? I think there are two possibilities, 1) he has already laid out the reason for seeking comfort at the foot of God; 2) he has admitted the fact that though a child of God he remains in the flesh and is not unable to sin. Thus he is saying that if the rage of his enemies be deserved so be it, so then he is seeking for God to awake 'for me' the judgment thou hast commanded; if this be rage from the hatred of their own hearts and not provoked then he is crying out to God to awake the judgment upon themselves. This seems to go along with vs. 8, who does David seek judgment upon?
7:7 So shall the congregation of the people compass thee about: for their sakes therefore return thou on high. (Does not the Bible say that judgment shall begin at the house of God).
8 The LORD shall judge the people: judge me, O LORD, according to my righteousness, and according to mine integrity that is in me. (What righteousness does David possess? that alone that is the righteousness of God found in Christ; )
9 Oh let the wickedness of the wicked come to an end; but establish the just: for the righteous God trieth the hearts and reins. (The plea here is for the end of the works of the wicked, for the establishment of the just; [even so Lord, come]; David then having said these things declares in vs. 10 where his defence is found, where his refuge is...God.)

11 God judgeth the righteous, and God is angry with the wicked every day. (Knowing that 'for the righteous God trieth the hearts and reins.' I believe this Psalm is speaking not to the wicked in the beginning of it, nor in any part thereafter. Instead, I believe it to be a beautiful picture of the work of Grace in the believer's heart, showing with all longsuffering 'the goodness of God leadeth you to repentance.'

This is enough for now. Sorry to have kept you waiting in my response, but I was busy and had to finish my work. Forgive me. As I said above, it is not needful that you accept my belief concerning this passage, but this is surely what the Lord has used to comfort my heart in a similar circumstance experienced in my own life.

Praying His precious Grace be with you.

God Bless.
Bro. Dallas Eaton