The Carnal Nature - "in the flesh"

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by The Biblicist, Oct 22, 2014.

  1. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist
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    I realize there are some on here that deny Romans 7:14-25 and Galations 3:17-25 refer to the saved man and his struggle with indwelling sin. For those who deny this, please simply ignore this post, and let me address those that do.

    Like me, you believe that we, the New Testament child of God cannot overcome indwelling sin apart from submitting to the indwelling power of the Holy Spirit through our new inward man. Paul explains the alternative in detail for even an apostle who attempts to overcome the flesh apart from the power of the indwelling Spirit - total 100% failure. You have also experienced that failure too as I have.

    However, even when that is made clear by scripture and by your own experience, many, if not most of you imagine that pre-pentecost people of God could do exactly what Paul claimed he could not do except by the indwelling Spirit of Christ!!! And yet, pre-Pentecost people of God are said to be "inferior" to us??????

    We attribute all that we are able to do for the glory of God to the inward new man as empowered by the indwelling Spirit and all the favorable characteristics of that expression as "fruit" of the Spirit as opposed to the works of the flesh - all of grace. However, many if not most of you claim the pre-Pentecost people of God could walk "by faith" (Heb. 11) and be justified "by faith (Rom. 4) completely apart from any new inward man or indwelling Spirit of God, or "fruit' of the Spirit but glorified God "in the flesh" as that is all you allow them to have!

    However, it comes to critical mass, when most of you assert they could do all that and be recognized as true people of God (apart from the multitude of false professors in their midst (Heb. 4:2), as SPIRITUALLY DEAD persons! Spiritually dead - meaning that their spirit is "alienated from the life of God" because they have no SPIRITUAL UNION between their spirit and God but yet God could claim them as true people of God! Do you understand the term "union" and what it necessarily entails? It requires INDWELLING by the Spirit of God to even exist, as the opposition of union is SEPARATION which is the Biblical definition for death, especially spiritual death! Yet, that is your position.

    This is your position due to your understanding of the baptism in the Spirit and four or five scriptures. You replace the doctrine of regeneration, which is God's way to bring a lost person into SPIRITUAL UNION with God, thus "quicken" them with your doctrine of the baptism in the Spirit.

    So you have saints "in the flesh" able to do what you cannot do without the Indwelling Spirit. You have them necessarilly Spiritually Dead and yet able to walk by faith, justified by faith, manifest the "fruit" of the Spirit in their lives yet without the Spirit. Don't you think something is wrong with your doctrine and it has its wrong source with your definition of the baptism in the Spirit????

    My position is there is no salvation of any kind at any time OUTSIDE of Christ and salvation "in Christ" is inclusive of all of redemption according to the blood of the everlasting covenant (Heb. 13:20; Acts 10;43).
     
    #1 The Biblicist, Oct 22, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 22, 2014
  2. beameup

    beameup
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    There are many "illusions" to the ego in Paul's epistles.
    There are many ego "synonyms" therein, in addition to "carnal" and "flesh".

    For example: Let us not be desirous of vain glory, provoking one another, envying one another. Gal 5:26

    see below:
     
  3. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist
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    How about dealing with the practical and doctrinal problems I presented???:wavey:
     
  4. beameup

    beameup
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    Well, if you are "walking in the Spirit" there is not a problem with sin.
    Constant 24/7 linkage with the Holy Spirit renders "sin" a moot point.
    That deals with the "practical" as it is personally experienced.
    Now, re-read Paul's epistles and substitute the word "ego" in
    every passage/verse where Paul "alludes" to it. :BangHead:

    Keep in mind that many Christians only "hear" the Holy Spirit once -
    at the point of salvation (and being SEALED with the Holy Spirit).
    Following that, they easily "slip" back into the ego-centered life.
     
    #4 beameup, Oct 23, 2014
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  5. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist
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    I don't want to seem rude, but did you actually read the OP?? The primary point of the OP was to challenge those who deny that pre-Pentecost saints were regenerated, indwelt, sealed and led by the Holy Spirit to explain how those saints could walk by faith, manifest fruit of the Spirit, obtain justification by faith when Paul acknolwedged that he could NOT overcome the power of indwelling sin apart from the regenerated indwelling Spirit and inward new man?????????

    So what does "ego" or the pronoun "I' have to do with that issue? Are you saying that old Testament saints did not use the pronoun "I" also?
     
  6. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1
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    They could not do those things, as they were weak in their own flesh and sin natures, but God freely chose to remit their sins, as he had the messiah coming in their future to fully atone on their behalf...

    They were "required" to put trust and faith into the promise of god that he would one day send the messiah, and not to be able to live and keep the law...
     

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