The Catholic "Salvation"

Discussion in 'Free-For-All Archives' started by Brother Adam, Feb 10, 2004.

  1. Brother Adam

    Brother Adam
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    When the faithful Catholic Christian speaks of "Salvation" the likelyhood they are refering to the initial faith in Christ one receives as they enter the family of God is unlikely.

    Catholics refer to "salvation" more often in terms of the lifelong process that includes both justification and santification. A Catholic is "saved" when they are in heaven. That isn't to say that a Catholic doesn't have a personal relationship with Christ through faith, they are simply using the term differently. That is partly why Catholicism is often mistaken as the religion where one does "good works to achieve salvation".

    However, as protestants affirm, throughout our life on earth we are accountable to the deeds that we do, the good fruits. This is different than the "works" of the law the Bible speaks of. After Salvation, Christ expects that we will pick up our cross and follow him.

    I personally think that Catholic theology shows that our "initial salvation" is in no way a part of our "works" (or better stated "good deeds/ fruits") in their beliefs of baptism. Where it is solely by the grace of God that one recieves baptism and nothing else. Correct or not, is up to your own beliefs (personally I don't accept infant baptism).

    Again: Catholics affirm that Jesus Christ is the only savior of humankind and that only through faith in Him and through no other path, can we find eternal life.

    In the spirit of love and truth,
    Bro. Adam
     
  2. Harley4Him

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    Adam, why is baptism such a contentious issue? On this board, I've seen catholics criticized for baptizing infants before they know what's going on, and also criticized for not baptizing until late in life (e.g., Constantine). If it's just a symbol why should anyone care when? If it's more than a symbol, is there a golden window of opportunity that you must hit or be out of luck?
     
  3. Gina B

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    OH I GET IT! They believe what we do, they just use different words!
    Ok I'm convinced. :rolleyes:
    Gina
     
  4. Brother Adam

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    [/QUOTE]Adam, why is baptism such a contentious issue? On this board, I've seen catholics criticized for baptizing infants before they know what's going on, and also criticized for not baptizing until late in life (e.g., Constantine). If it's just a symbol why should anyone care when? If it's more than a symbol, is there a golden window of opportunity that you must hit or be out of luck? [/QB][/QUOTE]

    I think it tends to be a huge issue for non-Catholics because they tend to think in terms of "If they are Baptizing infants, and believes that saves the infant (see protestant definition for "save"), then they are not trusting in Christ or trusting their salvation to their good works along with Christ, which means that they are not saved"
     
  5. Brother Adam

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    Honestly Gina, this thread isn't for you or anyone else who doesn't care. I think most of us would just prefer you keep your "know-it-all" remarks to yourself, which would go for anyone else who doesn't have anything positive or productive to add.


    I doubt God sees your lack of charity in a gracious light, and it certainly does not impress anyone.
     
  6. Harley4Him

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    But then, if you believe baptism saves you, for the same reasons they still wouldn't be happy about you baptizing adults, would they?
     
  7. Gina B

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    I would think He'd be more concerned with His children snuggling up to false religion.
    I don't like it when people disagree with me either, but this is an open forum, and here I am! [​IMG]
    Gina
     
  8. Brother Adam

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    ]But then, if you believe baptism saves you, for the same reasons they still wouldn't be happy about you baptizing adults, would they?

    ------


    Wait...you're using to many pronouns and got me confused. You do you refer to when you say "they"?

    Thanks!
     
  9. Brother Adam

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    Well, as moderator, that is your choice to be as unkind as you choose to be, just remember that your convicting yourself with your words!

    I agree wholeheartedly though- I wouldn't want anyone snuggling up with a false religion either!
     
  10. Singer

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    Adam,

    Don't show your weaknesses by coming down so hard on Gina for her comments. She's not the only one who has realized that Catholics are constantly trying to prove to Protestants that their doctrines are identical. (Thanks Gina)

    If that is correct, then it should be a relief to Protestants to realize that they are not missing out on something. After all, the more that Catholics claim to be like everyone else, the more it makes me wonder what they think it is that I'm missing out on..... :confused:

    .........would hearing the Word of God in the Catholic Church be superior to hearing the Word of God in a Baptist Church?

    Is salvation preached from Catholic lips any better than from Protestant lips?

    This IS following your thread topic, Adam, and please see it as such.
     
  11. Gina B

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    Yes, I am a very unkind person. [​IMG]
    Taken from a Catholic Library site:
    Do you agree with that Adam? Is it the truth in your opinion?
    Gina
     
  12. DHK

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    I disagree. That statement is not quite true. It would be more accurate to say: "Catholics affirm that the Catholic Church is the only way to salvation and through faith and obedience to the church, and through no othere path, can one find eternal life."
    Outside the Catholic Church there is no salvation.
    That belief in itself throws the RCC in the realm of a cult or false religion.
    It is Jesus (not the RCC) who said: "I am the way, the truth, and the life; no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. (John 14:6)
    DHK
     
  13. Brother Adam

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    "Outside the Catholic Church there is no salvation.

    DHK"


    Did you take time out to learn what that statement means?

    Well folks, that's all I got time for tonight. I gotta go for the night! See you all tomorrow afternoon!
     
  14. DHK

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    Yep, I grew up as a Catholic. It was drilled into me that if I ever left the Cathlic Church that it would be a mortal sin, and I would perish for all eternity in Hell. The Catholic religion is a religion of fear. You cannot get to Heaven unless you are a part of it. You must be baptized as a Catholic to get to Heaven. Their definition of being born again (John 3:3-5) is being baptized. It includes the heresy of baptismal regeneration. It is a works salvation; whereas the Bible teaches that it is impossible to get to Heaven by one's works.
    DHK
     
  15. Singer

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    NOW THE DENIAL STARTS !!
     
  16. thessalonian

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    I disagree. That statement is not quite true. It would be more accurate to say: "Catholics affirm that the Catholic Church is the only way to salvation and through faith and obedience to the church, and through no othere path, can one find eternal life."
    Outside the Catholic Church there is no salvation.
    That belief in itself throws the RCC in the realm of a cult or false religion.
    It is Jesus (not the RCC) who said: "I am the way, the truth, and the life; no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. (John 14:6)
    DHK
    </font>[/QUOTE]DHK,

    I recommend you leave the expounding on Catholic faith to us. You like to twist it to suit your agenda of hatred of the truth.

    Brian,

    Your observation is very good and one that is easily proven. A Catholic who falls in to mortal sin can do no amount of works to get himself back to being right with God. He must repent of his sins and once again submit his life to Christ. Thus the Protestant claim that we think we are saved by our works is verifably false. For works to be of any use they must be performed by a "saved" Christian. i.e. one who is in a state of grace. Works by any other person are as filthy rags in God's eye's.
     
  17. Lorelei

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    It is because they are using the term differently that we realize they are teaching a false doctrine of works. We must use the term as the scriptures do. The scriptures say we are saved by grace through faith, not through faith in the various "graces" that the church has defined to suit her purpose.

    Words are important and have meaning. We can't change the meaning and pretend to believe the same thing. If I am eating an apple and you are eating an orange but call it an apple are we actually eating the same thing? I don't think so.

    ~Lorelei
     
  18. Carson Weber

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    Hi Gina,

    You wrote, "I don't like it when people disagree with me either, but this is an open forum, and here I am!"

    If this is an open forum and because of that, it is okay for those to post opposing views, then why did you remove the thread entitled Why should a Baptist become Catholic, which did not violate any of the posting rules on BaptistBoard.com?

    Perhaps your comment above should be tweaked with "this is an open forum only for Baptists whereas opposing views will be censored." At least, be consistent.

    As a Catholic, I am open to hearing anyone's opposing viewpoint without the silent fear that perhaps there's something I don't know that might just show my faith to be insufficient or wrong on various points. I have an open mind and an open heart with a faith that seeks further understanding.
     
  19. Gina B

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    It is an open board, for anyone to post on who is a member. That is NOT the same as being free to post whatever you feel like posting. There are rules and regulations.
    One of them is that you cannot post anything that tries to persuade others against Christianity. I saw your post, titled "Why should a Baptist become Catholic", as a direct violation of that rule. I believe the majority of Catholics are not Christians. I did not cite that rule in my pm to you, because as I explained in the pm I wished to wait until Webmaster saw the thread and gave his input.
    Take a good look around Carson. This is a baptist board, meant for baptists to post on. You are not a baptist. You and others were offered the privilege of joining with some forums restricted. You took that offer and used it to try to promote your false religion upon the baptist members and sway them from their beliefs. That was very rude.
    To top it off, you bring your problem with it out in an open forum when it was being dealt with privately via pm. Having been a member this long you should be well aware that members are asked to solve such disputes privately.
    So far, you chose to join a baptist discussion group and use it to further your Catholic agenda, then when you were called on it you aggravated the problem by posting your sarcastic grievance openly when it was not yet finished being handled via pm.
    Think about it.
    Gina
     
  20. Singer

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    We've all seen the claim of the Catholic Church as was posted earlier:

    "Outside the Catholic Church there is no salvation."

    It is written throughout their history and that quote to the most simple or the most advanced mind still appears to mean that salvation is not available to anyone who is not a Catholic by denomination.

    Adam will come back tomorrow with his Catholic insight to tell us that we're reading it wrong and that it means something else.

    Are we being taken for a bunch of idiots or what?
     

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