The Children whom God hath given me

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Iconoclast, Jun 21, 2015.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2010
    Messages:
    13,380
    Likes Received:
    728
    In Hebrews 2 we are told exactly who the Lord Jesus Christ died for.

    It was not all mankind as some speculate.

    All whom the Father gives to Son will be saved because Jesus come to earth and seeks and saves everyone of them.

    10 For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings.

    11 For both he that sanctifieth and they who are sanctified are all of one: for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren,

    12 Saying, I will declare thy name unto my brethren, in the midst of the church will I sing praise unto thee.

    13 And again, I will put my trust in him. And again, Behold I and the children which God hath given me.

    14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;

    15 And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage.

    16 For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.
    17 Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.

    These persons here spoken of in the Blue colored bolded portions and these alone are the objects of the cross work of the Lord Jesus Christ.

    There are those who try and apply verses meant for these children alone to all mankind but we have seen that they cannot do so. The best they can do is misuse these verses and teach falsely on them.

    If you have other verses that have been and are misused in this same way, offer those verses here.

    If you desire to only derail this thread stay out and start your own thread.

    What verses have you seen wrongly applied to "all men" when only THE CHILDREN are in view?:type::type::thumbs:
     
  2. beameup

    beameup
    Expand Collapse
    Member

    Joined:
    May 20, 2011
    Messages:
    915
    Likes Received:
    2
    Perhaps you could quote the Old Testament passages (in context) which are "tagged" in Hebrews with brief quotes.
    For example, you could quote Isaiah 8:18 in its entirety:
    Behold, I and the children whom the LORD hath given me are for signs and for wonders in Israel from the LORD of hosts, which dwelleth in mount Zion. Isa 8:18

    The title of the book "Hebrews" should yield a "clue" to the targeted audience.
     
  3. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2006
    Messages:
    38,332
    Likes Received:
    786
    He only wants people to post who agree with him.
     
  4. wpe3bql

    wpe3bql
    Expand Collapse
    Member

    Joined:
    May 15, 2015
    Messages:
    979
    Likes Received:
    12
    Don't know if this is "in line" with the OP, but I've noticed (more than once!) that there are some folks, whether intentionally or not I don't know, who leave out a very important definite article (i.e., "the") when quoting Romans 8:28.

    My Bible shows this verse as: "And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are THE CALLED according to his purpose." (Emphasis added.)

    Since I do not know from what Bible these aforementioned people are attempting to quote, it could very well be that the "the" is, in fact, omitted from their Bibles.......although I seriously doubt it! :thumbs:
     
  5. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2010
    Messages:
    13,380
    Likes Received:
    728
    All scripture is written for all Christians at all times.

    Hyper dispensational error never adds to a thread .....because it is just that.....error.
     
  6. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2010
    Messages:
    13,380
    Likes Received:
    728
    Not necessarily Mitchell.
    I would settle for anyone who has anything positive to add to the thread which pretty much leaves you a n d your void of content posts out.

    You post your two or three negative comments than disappear as soon as anyone questions you.

    We will give you"early dismissal" as they do with unruly elementary school students.
     
  7. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2010
    Messages:
    13,380
    Likes Received:
    728
    The discussion of the prophetic children given in the early portions of Isaiah was meant to allow them to make the connection between the historical events and the fulfillment of Immanuel and the gentiles blending together with the elect remnant to form the Christian Israel.....the church which you and your hyper error cannot quite grasp.

    To fall away from the public assembly of this Christian Israel was in reality apostasy from the true and living God....like modern Israelites still do....except they have lived in unbelief and despise Him still today....even though you still fawn all over them.
     
    #7 Iconoclast, Jun 22, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 22, 2015
  8. beameup

    beameup
    Expand Collapse
    Member

    Joined:
    May 20, 2011
    Messages:
    915
    Likes Received:
    2
    Replacement Theology is a creation of the 4th Century Catholic (State) Church under Constantine.
    Suddenly, O.T. verses mean "Spiritual Israel". This only applies to positive verses about "Israel".
    The negative verses are interpreted as "symbolic", "metaphorical", etc.

    For help in understanding scripture with the enlightenment of the Holy Spirit, see below:
     
  9. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2010
    Messages:
    13,380
    Likes Received:
    728
    This thread ia about "the children"...all of them given to Jesus.
    Your unbiblical diagram is another extension of your wrong theology.
     
    #9 Iconoclast, Jun 22, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 22, 2015
  10. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2006
    Messages:
    38,332
    Likes Received:
    786
    Actually I leave once I have been attacked which is clear in this post here. You cannot seem to respond to anyone without attacking them or belittling there position.
     
  11. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2006
    Messages:
    38,332
    Likes Received:
    786
    Here is an example of what I just posted.
     
  12. revmwc

    revmwc
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2011
    Messages:
    4,037
    Likes Received:
    69
    Let's look at the interlinear ScrTR:

    Notice verse 17 from the interlinear, Christ came "to be propitiating the misses of the people."

    That is He became the propitiation for the sins of the people, what people?

    All mankind? Which is backed up by 1 John 2:2, And He Propitiation is about the misses of us not about the our more yet only but about whole of the world.

    He became the propitiation for our sins (misses) not ours only but about the whole world. He became the propitiation for All mankind. So that the issue is not sin but unbelief.

    The interlinear bears it out Christ came "to be propitiating the misses of the people." What people, "about whole of the world."
     
  13. Van

    Van
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2011
    Messages:
    9,516
    Likes Received:
    49
    Who are the people? Verse 16, the descendant of Abraham. Who is the descendant of Abraham? Any believer, Jew or Gentile. Who is given to Christ? Everyone whose faith God credits as righteousness. Thus Christ died to be the propitiation for the whole world of fallen mankind.
     
  14. revmwc

    revmwc
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2011
    Messages:
    4,037
    Likes Received:
    69
    To me Verse 16 says Christ was the seed of Abraham and He became the propitiation for the sins of all mankind.

    Notice how the two verses correlate:

    16 Not for bind where of messengers it is on getting up but of seed of Abraham it is on getting up. (17 a) Which place He.

    Jesus became the seed of man through Abraham and He came to be propitiating the misses of the people.
     
  15. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2010
    Messages:
    13,380
    Likes Received:
    728
    Do you feel what I said was not accurate
    You offer no position...and all I did was describe what you do...
     
  16. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2010
    Messages:
    13,380
    Likes Received:
    728
    The thread is about the children.....what he posts is unbiblical....what's the problem?
     
  17. BrotherJoseph

    BrotherJoseph
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2006
    Messages:
    1,086
    Likes Received:
    139
    Brother Iconoclast,

    There is another key passage in Hebrews in reference to sons and bastards that proves God does not love all men, only the sons.
    6 For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.7 If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?8 But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons." (Hebrews 12:6-8)

    The fact that this passage clearly states that those he does not Chastise are bastards and those that he chastises he loves are sons are two undeniable facts that bury the false doctrine of a universal love of God for all mankind and a universal atonement.

    God Bless,

    Brother Joe
     
  18. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2010
    Messages:
    13,380
    Likes Received:
    728
    Yes.This is quite correct and irrefutable. Only the elect are adopted,that is...placed as sons.
     
  19. DHK

    DHK
    Expand Collapse
    <b>Moderator</b>
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2000
    Messages:
    37,982
    Likes Received:
    134
    All scripture was not written to Christians. A Christian is a follower of "Christ."
    Those in the OT did not know "Christ," but only Jehovah, as he revealed himself in the OT. Revelation is progressive. The first "Christians" were Peter, James, John (or perhaps, Mary, Joseph, and some others), but not those in the OT.

    "The Church" so-called is not an extension of Israel nor a replacement of it.
    Churches are God ordained institutions that God himself instituted for this day and age. They are His divine institutions that were never in the OT, and which he has ordained to bless His Work in this day and age.

    BTW, the basic message in the Book of Jonah? Who was it directed to? Believers or unbelievers?
    What about the message contained in the Book of Nahum? believers of unbelievers?

    Are you absolutely sure that ALL scripture is written to believers.
    In Job chapter one do you think that the Lord may have had a message for Satan himself?
     
  20. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2010
    Messages:
    18,927
    Likes Received:
    96
    Nailed it again Joe :thumbs:
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page

Loading...