Featured The Children whom God hath given me

Brother Revmwc,

I guess Christ failed in his mission then as we know the world (every human being as you interpret it) does not end up getting saved "through him" as He had purposed according to you?

His mission was specific, to save HIS people who are scattered throughout the entire world, and He did it. "And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name Jesus: for he shall save his people from their sins" (Matthew 1:21)

Thus the difference between the savior I believe in and the one you believe in is that your savior must have failed in His mission. That savior that you preach is foreign to scripture.

Brother Joe

 

No double payment the sin of all mankind was paid in full by Christ. There can be no payment by another for someone who rejects Christ. christ died for the sins of the world, the unbeliever rejects that payment and is therefore guilty of the sin of unbelief of which only they can pay the penalty for that sin and the penalty is the second death that is eternal separation from God in the Lake of fire.

 

Matthew 1:21

She shall be bringing forth yet Son and you shall be calling the name of Him Jesus He for shall be saving the People of Him from the misses of them.

Jesus came to save the People of Him, that is the Jewish people first, so Nation Israel must be saved and will be all them and then the gentiles all of them no, but Whosover will call upon Him will be saved, He provided the means of salvation for every human being but not all will accept that payment. Can God force them yes will He no just as He could have kept Adam and Eve from falling by not placing the tree of the Knowledge of good and Evil in the garden. But He had a purpose and a plan in the entire work of mankind that being salvation.

What was His purpose and plan in your opinion?

 

Brother Revmwc,

If Christ didn't die for the sin of unbelief as you say I guess the apostles themselves are dammed as they committed this sin? Mark 16:14, "Afterward he appeared unto the eleven as they sat at meat, and upbraided them with their unbelief and hardness of heart, because they believed not them which had seen him after he was risen." Also, how do you reconcile your doctrine that unbelief is the unpardonable sin with Paul's statement, "If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself." (2 Timothy 2:13)

Brother Joe

 

Purpose and plan to save his elect people "And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name Jesus: for he shall save his people from their sins." (Matthew 1:21)

Was this mission accomplished? Scripture answers this, "And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day" (John 6:39) and "27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. (John 10:27-28) He died for His sheep and redeemed them.

 

The Passover is the perfect example notice what He said, when he seeth the blood upon the lintel, and on the two side posts, "the Lord will pass over the door" the lamb's were slain and the blood applied to all who believed and accepted the blood. For those who refused to believe the blood was not applied it was shed but not applied. Could it have been applied to their doors? Yes, would the destroyer have passed over the house of any Egyptian that had the blood upon the lintel and two side post, of course He would have passed over them. Again the blood was there and the lamb slain but those who refused the blood perished.

Were there any non Jews that were passedover?

Exodus 12 gives an ordinance that adds those outside the Jewish people,
43 "And the Lord said unto Moses and Aaron, This is the ordinance of the passover: There shall no stranger eat thereof:
44 But every man's servant that is bought for money, when thou hast circumcised him, then shall he eat thereof.

Those who were set apart that is in our time anyone who receives Christ can receive the Passover. Anyone, any person who receives Christ can receive the benefit of the Passover Lamb, but the Lamb was offered for all.

Notice too how the passover lamb was to be shared in Exodus 12:4 "And if the household be too little for the lamb, let him and his neighbour next unto his house take it according to the number of the souls; every man according to his eating shall make your count for the lamb."

Every man was to partake did they all partake who were Jews?

Exodus 12:48 "And when a stranger shall sojourn with thee, and will keep the passover to the Lord, let all his males be circumcised, and then let him come near and keep it; and he shall be as one that is born in the land: for no uncircumcised person shall eat thereof."

Those who became separated by circumcision were able to partake of the Passover, not just Jews but gentiles.

We see some Gentiles actually were covered Exodus 12:38 "And a mixed multitude went up also with them; and flocks, and herds, even very much cattle."

Whomever received the blood that night went up with the Children of Israel and were covered with the Passover Blood. Jesus as the Lamb shed His Blood for all who will receive Him and for all who will not. The Lamb of the Passover was killed but that didn't help the people to be passed over, they had to accept the blood and allow it to be applied to their lives.

 

Luke 19:9 "And Jesus said unto him, This day is salvation come to this house, forsomuch as he also is a son of Abraham.
10 For the Son of man is come to seek and to save that which was lost."

He came seeking the lost of which all mankind is. At some point I was lost but Jesus came seeking and I called upon the name of the Lord to receive Him as my savior.

Abram is the perfect example, God said in Genesis 12,

1 "Now the Lord had said unto Abram, Get thee out of thy country, and from thy kindred, and from thy father's house, unto a land that I will shew thee:
2 And I will make of thee a great nation, and I will bless thee, and make thy name great; and thou shalt be a blessing:
3 And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed.
4 So Abram departed, as the Lord had spoken unto him; and Lot went with him: and Abram was seventy and five years old when he departed out of Haran."

God said go and Abraham followed, could He have said no of course he could.

Jesus showed the perfect example of the call and it being followed or rejected in Matthew 21:

28 "But what think ye? A certain man had two sons; and he came to the first, and said, Son, go work to day in my vineyard.
29 He answered and said, I will not: but afterward he repented, and went.
30 And he came to the second, and said likewise. And he answered and said, I go, sir: and went not."

One said I will not but he repented after saying no to the Call He answered the call and followed the Father. The other said I will and yet he went not, He said I will follow instruction that is I will receive Christ but He never called upon Him.

Jesus showed exactly the fact that some will show an outward receiving of Christ and not really receive Him others may reject and then repent, then He ask what we see in verse 31 "Whether of them twain did the will of his father? They say unto him, The first. Jesus saith unto them, Verily I say unto you, That the publicans and the harlots go into the kingdom of God before you." The calling is there scripture says Call upon the name of the Lord and thou shalt be saved, many so I will but don't follow through others say I want and then they follow and call.

Jesus mission was fulfilled entirely and completely He paid for the Sins of the Lost. But they must accept His payment.

 

First the 11 they did not at first believe it was Him, but did they later all believe it was Him raised from the dead, we all know they did. They had doubts we do too sometimes yet we had Faith and called upon the name of the Lord believing and were save.
If we believed and called upon Christ at some point then can we deny Him? Many have or how about those who received Him and then turned to a false teacher, are they saved and yet deny that He is the only way? Yet He will not deny them if they truly received Him!

 

Brother Revmwc,

Did not all the people that the lambs blood was shed for not perish like the Egyptians? And so it is, with Christ's atonement. All that His blood was shed for will not perish. Also, what scripture tells you that there were those of the house of Israel "who refused the blood"? There were none. Exodus 12:28 says, "28 And the children of Israel went away, and did as the Lord had commanded Moses and Aaron, so did they." Likewise, all the sheep Christ died for will come, "My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:" (John 10:27) The fact that all the Jews obeyed the Passover command is very important to the type and shadow that all whom Christ died for will believe.

Also you seem to make a deal that one had to "accept" the blood. Did you know no place in scripture tells one to "accept Jesus"? Also, did you know the one place that being "accepted" is mentioned in the New Testament it is in regards to Christ having made us "accepted" through His sacrifice and is in the past tense? Here it is, "To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved." (Ephesians 1:6)

All the elect whom Christ died for will believe and have faith in Him, but that is not the cause of them becoming born again.

Yes, there were non Jews which is symbolic that their are Gentiles too who are his children. This does not prove that the lamb was slain for those not in the household, does it? Similarly, only those children in the household of faith is the blood of Christ the lamb shed for. Also, being circumcised was merely a sign not the cause of the house being spared, as is baptism a sign for all His elect believers, but not the cause of being justified, that is Christ's blood alone.

The lamb was not offered for all. The Egyptians symbolize the reprobate and scripture is clear none of them were spared. "30 And Pharaoh rose up in the night, he, and all his servants, and all the Egyptians; and there was a great cry in Egypt; for there was not a house where there was not one dead." (Exodus 12:30) This is because the blood was not applicable to the Egyptians, they could not claim it.

As far as "receiving Christ" as one's Passover, there is also no scripture in the whole Bible that teaches one can "receive Christ into their heart". He receives us, I am afraid you have it reversed. First one must be born of the Spirit, then they can and will believe, not the other way around.


God bless,

Brother Joe

 

I agree he came to save the lost, did He do it in full or did he fail with some?

Jesus doesn't call all men to repentance, as it is written, " ...for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance." (Matthew 9:13B). Those righteous he is not calling to repentance, it is those who are self righteous and do not believe they are sinners, like the Pharisee in Luke 18:11, " The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican". Why does one recognize they are sinners and in need of a savior? Because God has already given them a new heart.

Yes, let us look at Abraham's example. He was a child of God before he was justified by faith, wasn't he?

Was the prodigal not a son before he returned to his father, or did returning then make him a son?


Brother Joe

 

If you cannot accept my clarification in post #37 then there is no much hope for you.

What do you mean I don't have a choice.
Why did God give Moses the Law, and for whom did he give it to?
Were the instructions that He gave to Moses passed down to you to build a tabernacle? Is it in backyard? Have you finished building it yet? Why not?
What about the Temple described in Ezekiel? When are you going to finish that one? If it is all written for I want to see some action from you!

You have an unhealthy fear of dispensationalism. You see it everywhere. It is hiding in every corner, in the shadows, behind every bush, ready to come out of the shadows at any moment and attack you. You definitely have problems with dispensationalism--very unhealthy ones. You see, I never mentioned one word about dispensationalism and already you are suspicious, and even accusing of having my theology shaped by dispensationalism when I simply interpret the Bible literally as I should be, and as it meant to be.

And if you were witnessing to a Jew today you could you use all the books as well. But the Jews of the OT and those of today still use just the OT. That is significant. It was a book written "for them and their understanding."

I quoted to you Luke 24:27, as Jesus quoted passages from the OT to two Jewish believers. At that time it was a book written for the Jews. There was no NT.

Then you should respect the facts that you just quoted from Paul.
This is an admission by you that the OT was a book written to Israel by the prophets of Israel. Now we are getting somewhere.
Just remember that in Rom.9:1-5 and in Rom.10:1-5 Paul continues to pray for the salvation of this entire nation, Israel, unto whom these oracles and covenants were committed. Israel still existed then, as it does now. The Church obviously did not replace it or did not become a continuation of it. It still exists today. Either that or Paul was a lunatic for praying for something that didn't exist.

Israel exists. She is not simply a shadow. The church is separate from Israel.

1 Corinthians 10:32 Give none offence, neither to the Jews, nor to the Gentiles, nor to the church of God:
--Note, Paul delineates three groups of people in his day all existing side by side. The church did not replace or become a continuation of the Israel. That is plain error.

This was a prophecy of Jesus Christ, spoken of in the OT (Deuteronomy), that Stephen refers to. (It would be helpful if you would give the full reference from where you are quoting from.)

You are looking at a poor translation here, as you know very well there is no "church" in the wilderness.

There are more than a few translations including Young's that give a different translation:
Acts 7:38 `This is he who was in the assembly in the wilderness, with the messenger who is speaking to him in the mount Sinai, and with our fathers who did receive the living oracles to give to us;
--The word ekklesia always means assembly, and that is what they were.
When they were in the wilderness did Israel ever Not assemble??

Stephen is giving the history of Israel. How does this help you any?
It doesn't. Actually it defeats your cause. This is not a history of the church; but of Israel. You can find the same history in the OT, which Stephen is quoting from--the canon of the Jews.

 

Since you also referenced Psalm 22 in the OP, let's have a look at that as well, and see if "the children" are mentioned:

Ps 22:22 I will declare thy name unto my brethren: in the midst of the congregation will I praise thee.
23 Ye that fear the LORD, praise him; all ye the seed of Jacob, glorify him; and fear him, all ye the seed of Israel.
24 For he hath not despised nor abhorred the affliction of the afflicted; neither hath he hid his face from him; but when he cried unto him, he heard.
25 My praise shall be of thee in the great congregation: I will pay my vows before them that fear him.
26 The meek shall eat and be satisfied: they shall praise the LORD that seek him: your heart shall live for ever.
27 All the ends of the world shall remember and turn unto the LORD: and all the kindreds of the nations shall worship before thee.
28 For the kingdom is the LORD'S: and he is the governor among the nations.

Nope, no "children" mentioned. Looks like this is the fulfillment of the Lord's Prayer "thy Kingdom come, thy will be done, on earth"
Looks like the subject is "my brethren, the seed of Jacob, the seed of Israel". "Seed" is genetic, genetic Hebrews (Jews).

 

Wait a minute there. If Christ paid for the debts of everyone and everyone does not end up in heaven, then that is a faulty atonement/payment. I hear people say all the time that Christ has done all He is going to do, now we have to do our part. That is, at best, semi-Peligianism, and at worst, full blown Peligianism. Christ has done the redemptive work upon the cross, and this work blotted out the sins of the sheep. Yes, God saves His sheep one at a time in time, but the redemption made upon the cross covers all the sheep, both pre- and post-cross believers.

That is why Christ never paid the sin debt the goats have. They will have God's wrath poured out on them just as God did Christ while He hung on the cross.

If the lost have their sin debt paid by Christ, there is no wrath to be poured out upon them; their sins have been paid for.

 

I have one question to ask you. What Laws are written upon our hearts now? If the gentiles were not given the Law, that reeks of antinomianism.