The Christ of arminianism

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by beloved57, Feb 8, 2007.

  1. beloved57

    beloved57
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    What about Arminianism ?

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    The Christ of Arminianism
    (Freewillism)
    Rev. Steven Houck
    The Bible warns us that in the last days in which we live there will be many false Christs-those who claim to be Christ but who are imposters. Jesus said, "Take heed that no man deceive you. For many shall come in my name, saying I am Christ; and shall deceive many." (Matt. 24:4-5). We who profess to be Christians must take heed. We must be very careful that we are not deceived. Our calling is to trust, love, and follow the true Christ and Him only. We may have nothing to do with the false Christs who are so numerous in our day.

    We know about the Christ of the cults and other religions. He is a good man, a prophet, the first creation of God, a great spirit, a divine idea, or even a god himself. But he is not true and eternal God. He receives his existence from another who is greater than he. He is not the Christ of the Bible. We are not deceived by this Christ. He is a false Christ.

    We know about the Christ of Roman Catholicism. They profess that He is true God. He suffered and died for the forgiveness of sin. He arose again, ascended into heaven, and is coming again. But he is not a complete Savior. The Christ of the Roman Catholics can not save sinners without their own good works and the intercession of priests. He is not the Christ of the Bible. We are not deceived by this Christ. He is a false Christ.

    There is, however, another false Christ who is much more dangerous than the Christ of the cults and the Christ of Roman Catholicism. He has deceived people for many years and he continues to deceive millions. This Christ is so dangerous that, if it were not impossible, he would deceive the very elect (Matt. 24:24). He is the Christ of Arminianism.

    This false Christ is extremely dangerous because in many ways he appears to be the True Christ. They say that he is true God, equal with the Father and the Holy Spirit. They say that he died on the cross to save sinners. They even say that he saves by his grace alone, without the work of man. This Christ will have nothing to do with the Christ of the cults and the Christ of Roman Catholicism.

    But watch out! Be warned! The Christ of Arminianism is not the Christ of the Bible. Do not be fooled!

    1. The Christ of Arminianism - loves every individual person in the world and sincerely desires their salvation.

    The Christ of the Bible - earnestly loves and desires the salvation of only those whom God has unconditionally chosen to salvation. (Ps. 5:5, Ps. 7:11, Ps. 11:5, Matt. 11:27, John 17:9-10, Acts 2:47, Acts 13:48, Rom. 9:10-13, Rom. 9:21-24, Eph. 1:3-4)

    2. The Christ of Arminianism - offers salvation to every sinner and does all in his power to bring them to salvation. His offer and work are often frustrated, for many refuse to come.

    The Christ of the Bible - effectually calls to Himself only the elect and sovereignly brings them to salvation. Not one of them will be lost. (Isa. 55:11, John 5:21, John 6:37-40, John 10:25-30, John 17:2, Phil. 2:13)

    3. The Christ of Arminianism - can not regenerate and save a sinner who does not first choose Christ with his own "free will." All men have a "free will" by which they can either accept or reject Christ. That "free will" may not be violated by Christ.

    The Christ of the Bible - sovereignly regenerates the elect sinner apart from his choice, for without regeneration the spiritually dead sinner can not choose Christ. Faith is not man's contribution to salvation but the gift of Christ which He sovereignly imparts in regeneration. (John 3:3, John 6:44 & 65, John 15:16, Acts 11:18, Rom. 9:16, Eph. 2:1,Eph. 2:8-10, Phil. 1:29, Hebr. 12:2)

    4. The Christ of Arminianism - died on the cross for every individual person and thereby made it possible for every person to be saved. His death, apart from the choice of man, was not able to actually save anyone for many for whom he died are lost.

    The Christ of the Bible - died for only God's elect people and thereby actually obtained salvation for all those for whom He died. His death was a substitutionary satisfaction which actually took away the guilt of His chosen people. (Luke 19:10, John 10:14-15 & 26, Acts 20:28, Rom. 5:10, Eph. 5:25, Hebr. 9:12, I Peter 3:18)

    5. The Christ of Arminianism - loses many whom he has "saved" because they do not continue in faith. Even if he does give them "eternal security," as some say, that security is not based upon his will or work but the choice which the sinner made when he accepted Christ.

    The Christ of the Bible - preserves His chosen people so that they can not lose their salvation but persevere in the faith to the very end. He preserves them by the sovereign electing will of God, the power of His death, and the mighty working of His Spirit. (John 5:24, John 10:26-29, Rom. 8:29-30, Rom. 8:35-39, I Peter 1:2-5, Jude 24-25)

    As you can see, although the Christ of Arminianism and the Christ of the Bible may at first seem to be the same, they are very different. One is a false Christ. The other is the true Christ. One is weak and helpless. He bows before the sovereign "free will" of man. The other is the reigning Lord Who wills what He pleases and sovereignly accomplishes all that He wills.
    [personal attalcks on salvation not tolerated]
     
    #1 beloved57, Feb 8, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 13, 2007
  2. Dustin

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    In the words of Ed Edwards:

    Amen brother, PREACH IT! :thumbs:
     
  3. RebelBaptist

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    Sigh. More of the "my Jesus is better than your Jesus." :BangHead:
     
  4. beloved57

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    rebelb says

    Hmm, have you not read christ warning before ?

    matt 24

    23Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.

    24For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.



    http://godsonlygospel.com/Which Jesus2.htm






    http://godsonlygospel.com/Which Jesus2.htm
     
  5. DQuixote

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    Help me out here, okay? Before the foundation of the world, before there was anything, God said "I'm going to create a bunch of folks. I'm going to create a Group A, and a Group B. I'm going to save everyone in Group A, but those I place in Group B are doomed. OK. Now Adam will be the first of my creation, then I'll create Eve. OK. Now I'm going to create Eve to fail. And I'm going to create Adam to fail. They're going to have sons, Cain and Abel. I'm creating Cain to kill Abel. I'll create Abraham and test him up on a mountain. I'll create the promised land and define its boundaries. Now...

    Eventually I'm going to have to go down there myself. I'll call myself Jesus. I'll die on the Cross to pay the penalty for the sins of those in Group A. Those in Group B -- sorry. I already decided 43 billion years ago to cremate you guys."

    Is that how it works?
     
  6. Amy.G

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    Makes sense to me. :rolleyes: .......NOT! :laugh:
     
  7. Dustin

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    Not exactly.
     
  8. beloved57

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    wrong post
     
    #8 beloved57, Feb 8, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 8, 2007
  9. beloved57

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    dq ask

    This is true, The reason being, that God wanted to and purposed to display His Grace !

    eph 2 4But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,

    5Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;)

    6And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:

    7That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.
     
  10. BobRyan

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    Sorry brother - I can't imagine Ed going for this sad counterfeit for what might otherwise have been Bible study.

    In Christ,

    Bob
     
  11. BobRyan

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    It is the Calvinist doctrine known as "Abritrary Selection".


    In Christ,

    Bob
     
  12. BobRyan

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    And now when the Calvinists on this thread have gathered up their objectivity and courage - we will go on to COMPARE the well predicted CALVINIST future scenario to the ARMINIAN Future scenario -

    We will then see how the Calvinist position stands up to an objective test case.

    But the KEY difference can be summed up in John 3:16

    The Arminian version

    "God so loved the WORLD that HE GAVE..." ... yes REALLY.

    The Calvinist version

    "God so loved the FEW of Matt 7 that Christ was able to proptiate God not to kill them..."

    In Christ,

    Bob
     
  13. Dustin

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    Actually, it's a pretty unaccurate description of the Biblical doctrine of Unconditional Election.

    I hope this clears things up for you.

    By the way, you're welcome.


    Soli Deo Gloria,
    Dustin
     
  14. Arminius

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    I really do appreciate the fact that John Wesley called Calvinism a "Hellish blasphemy". I totally agree. Our Calvinist friend here, in typical Calvinist fashion [teaches] about people claiming a secret coming of Christ in the deserts, and us not to believe that, for His coming will be like lightining and of Cosmic proportions, he takes that plain simple passage about people LYING ABOUT THE RETURN OF THE LORD, and he says Jesus was taking about Arminians there! A more warped an sinful immoral mishandling of the Scriptures has never been exhibited [personal attack deleted] On another forum, I responded to [personal attack deleted], and it fits here:

    1Tim.
    1:18 This charge I commit unto thee, son Timothy, according to the
    prophecies which went before on thee, that thou by them mightest
    war a good warfare;
    1:19 Holding faith, and a good conscience; which some having put away
    concerning faith have made shipwreck:
    1:20 Of whom is Hymenaeus and Alexander; whom I have delivered
    unto Satan, that they may learn not to blaspheme.

    This is interesting. Paul excommunicated these two, and spiritually delivered them over to the Devil so they would learn not to blaspheme. If Augustine, John Calvin, or any die-hard Calvinist like Sproul, MacArthur and company showed up in Paul's churches teaching their [doctrine] for that IS what it is, Paul would have done the same to them.

    I am not being hypocritical. We are dealing with heresy and worse, [extreme remarks deleted]. Calvinism is an affront upon the Living God. Wesley called Calvinism a Hellish blasphemy, and I agree. The persecution, harassment, LYING discord and divisions sown by the Calvinists of his day are painful to read. Truly it is like the allegory Paul drew in Gal 4 where the children of the flesh persecute the children of the Spirit, like Ishmael's descendants harassed Isaac's.

    Calvinists have no case other than to dishonestly caricaturize Arminianism and call it things it is not. Rome has always done this to the pre-Protestant groups--the TRUE CHURCH that always existed down through the centuries that were known as Paulicians, Bohemians, Waldenses, Albigenses, Novatians and many more. Rome ascribes heretical beliefs to them they did not hold, and called them Arians, among other things. ALL LIES. Calvinists have done, and continue to do the same thing.

    I have a tape series by Vision Forum, where a panel of Calvinist Scholars gave a history of Puritanism and American history. When Questions about John Calvin were asked regarding his persecuting and having people murdered who did not agree with him theologically, the Calvinist Scholar FLAT OUT DENIED IT! [personal attack deleted]

    You have to understand WHAT you are dealing with when you deal with this doctrine and its apologists. Calvin and Calvinists have a NOTORIOUS history that has blackened the witness of God and the Reformation itself. Calvinism has bloodshed upon its hands, and they even murdered and persecuted other real believers--Baptists and Anabaptists. [demeaning remarks deleted] it has HORRIBLE FRUIT on every level of life, including opposition to revival and a false security in sin for professing believers. Its fruit is ROTTEN in every way.

    You may ask, "What about the good Calvinists and the FEW that God used in revival?" They were good, not because they were Calvinists, but because THEY WERE CHRISTIANS. Because of Jesus Christ. He got a deep hold of some of them, and they COULD NOT go along with the majority in their ungodly antics. As Finney observed, their hearts are better than their heads.

    Since what I posted is true, they must be viewed and dealt with accordingly. Over the years I have found they are IMPOSSIBLE to work with. They are factious, and eventually want to lure people to their churches [demeaning remarks deleted] They teach OSAS, which is a damnable heresy if there ever was one. I have tried to work with them on pro-life issues, and most of them are simply trouble makers. It is sad. So I obey 1Tim 1:20 and Galatians 4. [demeaning language deleted] In 24 years of observation, and 24 years of the study of doctrine and history, I can take no other posture. These are not merely "academic" issues, but affect every sphere of life.
     
    #14 Arminius, Feb 8, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 10, 2007
  15. Dustin

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    I have to ask, how much Scripture are you sweeping under the rug to come to that conclusion? I would have hoped you'd have used one of your long pre-written multi-colored posts, even though the reading isn't much better. They're nicer to look at, at the very least.

    Soli Deo Gloria,
    Dustin
     
  16. Dustin

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    Welsome to the Calvinism vs. Arminianism Board (aka Baptist Board).

    Here's a hint:Long posts are a lot less likely to get read, so you might as well shorten your posts to 2 or 3 paragraphs or less if you want anybody to take the time to read it.

    Other than the fact that I completely disagree with you, I just want to say that if you think Charles Finney was a credible evangelist or Bible teacher, you sir, are sadly mistaken.

    If it pleases you, feel free to try and refute the doctrines of grace and the sovereignty of God, I'm sure one of us "hellishly blasphemous" believers of these doctrines will help you understand why you are wrong.

    Enjoy your time here, honestly, enjoy it.

    Soli Deo Gloria,
    Dustin
     
  17. Arminius

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    Finney was very sound, and Calvinists have been engaging in a smear campaign against him recently becasue they are still mad at how effective he was in demolishing the Calvinist death-grip in America. And great revivals and salvations followed, far greater than ever before, and it just continues.

    How nice these [people] say Finney is the reason for the apostate Seeker Sensitive movements and the Purpose driven movements. Anyone who has ACTUALLY READ Finney's Systematic Theolgy, his sermons and his great book Revival Lectures, and who has also read Rick Warren KNOWS the Calvinists are lying. I have challenged people to read both authros and then decide who they will listen to becasue they will have to choose, seeing they are diametrically opposed in every way. Rick warren is a Laodicean deceiver, and Charles Finney was a holy, anointed man of God full of the love and fire of God for lost souls and holiness. you don't know what you are talking about,

    I don't need to refute "the doctrines of grace" Now if you would like me to refute what you believe, l Yes I will refute that--for that is the essense of Calvinism.

    Free-will is a Bible term, Sovereignty of God is not.
     
    #17 Arminius, Feb 8, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 10, 2007
  18. webdog

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    While I'm not a calvinist, arminius you are WAY off! Please show the words "free will" in the Bible, if it is indeed a "Bible term".

    To deny that God is sovereign is to deny God.

    To classify Rick Warren as a "laodicean deceiver" really shows you have no clue what you are talking about. Before you come on here and start ripping into everybody, you should first know what you are talking about.
     
  19. Dustin

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    Your display name should be Pelagius. Charles Finney was an unregenerate naturalist at best. It's sad to see that the fruit of his and that of the Pelagians so alive and well today.

    You are dead wrong with your final statement, and that is heresy.

    I actually agree with webdog, if you deny God's sovereignty, you're denying the God of the Bible.

    So according to your denial of very clear Biblical doctrine, I'm reporting your post.

    By your claims on this and your other posts, I've nothing else to say but repent of your sin of denying the sovereign God of the Bible, and pray that He will favor you saving knowledge of His Son Jesus Christ. This is not something you yourself can do, it is the work of the Holy Spirt alone. If you are unclear of what exactly the Gospel is, I will gladly explain it to you.

    I'll be praying for you.

    Soli Deo Gloria,
    Dustin
     
  20. Arminius

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    I'm sorry webdog, but it is you who doesn't know what he is talking about. I am well read on all these issues, and owns all the books. I do not speak on that which I have not studied out. It would be foolishness.

    You ask where the term free-will is in the Bible??????? Have you actually READ the Bible? If you did, you wouldn't ask this question.

    As far as this "Sovereignty of God" business, amazing how no one has posted one verse stating it. You just SAY the Bible teaches it.

    As far as your comments about Finney, once again, all lies. You have clearly not read the man, and you have believed the reports by your fellow Calvinist- Nothing has changed. Charles Finney was an anointed man, Calvin was not. Finney led tens of thousand to the Lord, Calvin never led a sould to Christ, and as a mater of fact drove many away with his life and warped doctrines.

    Rick Warren? Only someone who doesn't even know the free-will is a Bible term becasue they have noit READ the Bible would defend Rick Warren. Rick Warren's philosophy is derived from Peter Drucker, a business-growth Guru, whose book I read in college. Warren follows man's wisdom, which is foolishness with God.
     
    #20 Arminius, Feb 9, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 10, 2007

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