The Christ of arminianism

In the words of Ed Edwards:

Amen brother, PREACH IT! :thumbs:

 

Sigh. More of the "my Jesus is better than your Jesus." :BangHead:

 

Help me out here, okay? Before the foundation of the world, before there was anything, God said "I'm going to create a bunch of folks. I'm going to create a Group A, and a Group B. I'm going to save everyone in Group A, but those I place in Group B are doomed. OK. Now Adam will be the first of my creation, then I'll create Eve. OK. Now I'm going to create Eve to fail. And I'm going to create Adam to fail. They're going to have sons, Cain and Abel. I'm creating Cain to kill Abel. I'll create Abraham and test him up on a mountain. I'll create the promised land and define its boundaries. Now...

Eventually I'm going to have to go down there myself. I'll call myself Jesus. I'll die on the Cross to pay the penalty for the sins of those in Group A. Those in Group B -- sorry. I already decided 43 billion years ago to cremate you guys."

Is that how it works?

 

Makes sense to me. .......NOT! :laugh:

 

Not exactly.

 

Sorry brother - I can't imagine Ed going for this sad counterfeit for what might otherwise have been Bible study.

In Christ,

Bob

 

It is the Calvinist doctrine known as "Abritrary Selection".


In Christ,

Bob

 

And now when the Calvinists on this thread have gathered up their objectivity and courage - we will go on to COMPARE the well predicted CALVINIST future scenario to the ARMINIAN Future scenario -

We will then see how the Calvinist position stands up to an objective test case.

But the KEY difference can be summed up in John 3:16

The Arminian version

"God so loved the WORLD that HE GAVE..." ... yes REALLY.

The Calvinist version

"God so loved the FEW of Matt 7 that Christ was able to proptiate God not to kill them..."

In Christ,

Bob

 

Actually, it's a pretty unaccurate description of the Biblical doctrine of Unconditional Election.

I hope this clears things up for you.

By the way, you're welcome.


Soli Deo Gloria,
Dustin

 

I really do appreciate the fact that John Wesley called Calvinism a "Hellish blasphemy". I totally agree. Our Calvinist friend here, in typical Calvinist fashion [teaches] about people claiming a secret coming of Christ in the deserts, and us not to believe that, for His coming will be like lightining and of Cosmic proportions, he takes that plain simple passage about people LYING ABOUT THE RETURN OF THE LORD, and he says Jesus was taking about Arminians there! A more warped an sinful immoral mishandling of the Scriptures has never been exhibited [personal attack deleted] On another forum, I responded to [personal attack deleted], and it fits here:

1Tim.
1:18 This charge I commit unto thee, son Timothy, according to the
prophecies which went before on thee, that thou by them mightest
war a good warfare;
1:19 Holding faith, and a good conscience; which some having put away
concerning faith have made shipwreck:
1:20 Of whom is Hymenaeus and Alexander; whom I have delivered
unto Satan, that they may learn not to blaspheme.

This is interesting. Paul excommunicated these two, and spiritually delivered them over to the Devil so they would learn not to blaspheme. If Augustine, John Calvin, or any die-hard Calvinist like Sproul, MacArthur and company showed up in Paul's churches teaching their [doctrine] for that IS what it is, Paul would have done the same to them.

I am not being hypocritical. We are dealing with heresy and worse, [extreme remarks deleted]. Calvinism is an affront upon the Living God. Wesley called Calvinism a Hellish blasphemy, and I agree. The persecution, harassment, LYING discord and divisions sown by the Calvinists of his day are painful to read. Truly it is like the allegory Paul drew in Gal 4 where the children of the flesh persecute the children of the Spirit, like Ishmael's descendants harassed Isaac's.

Calvinists have no case other than to dishonestly caricaturize Arminianism and call it things it is not. Rome has always done this to the pre-Protestant groups--the TRUE CHURCH that always existed down through the centuries that were known as Paulicians, Bohemians, Waldenses, Albigenses, Novatians and many more. Rome ascribes heretical beliefs to them they did not hold, and called them Arians, among other things. ALL LIES. Calvinists have done, and continue to do the same thing.

I have a tape series by Vision Forum, where a panel of Calvinist Scholars gave a history of Puritanism and American history. When Questions about John Calvin were asked regarding his persecuting and having people murdered who did not agree with him theologically, the Calvinist Scholar FLAT OUT DENIED IT! [personal attack deleted]

You have to understand WHAT you are dealing with when you deal with this doctrine and its apologists. Calvin and Calvinists have a NOTORIOUS history that has blackened the witness of God and the Reformation itself. Calvinism has bloodshed upon its hands, and they even murdered and persecuted other real believers--Baptists and Anabaptists. [demeaning remarks deleted] it has HORRIBLE FRUIT on every level of life, including opposition to revival and a false security in sin for professing believers. Its fruit is ROTTEN in every way.

You may ask, "What about the good Calvinists and the FEW that God used in revival?" They were good, not because they were Calvinists, but because THEY WERE CHRISTIANS. Because of Jesus Christ. He got a deep hold of some of them, and they COULD NOT go along with the majority in their ungodly antics. As Finney observed, their hearts are better than their heads.

Since what I posted is true, they must be viewed and dealt with accordingly. Over the years I have found they are IMPOSSIBLE to work with. They are factious, and eventually want to lure people to their churches [demeaning remarks deleted] They teach OSAS, which is a damnable heresy if there ever was one. I have tried to work with them on pro-life issues, and most of them are simply trouble makers. It is sad. So I obey 1Tim 1:20 and Galatians 4. [demeaning language deleted] In 24 years of observation, and 24 years of the study of doctrine and history, I can take no other posture. These are not merely "academic" issues, but affect every sphere of life.

 

I have to ask, how much Scripture are you sweeping under the rug to come to that conclusion? I would have hoped you'd have used one of your long pre-written multi-colored posts, even though the reading isn't much better. They're nicer to look at, at the very least.

Soli Deo Gloria,
Dustin

 

Welsome to the Calvinism vs. Arminianism Board (aka Baptist Board).

Here's a hint:Long posts are a lot less likely to get read, so you might as well shorten your posts to 2 or 3 paragraphs or less if you want anybody to take the time to read it.

Other than the fact that I completely disagree with you, I just want to say that if you think Charles Finney was a credible evangelist or Bible teacher, you sir, are sadly mistaken.

If it pleases you, feel free to try and refute the doctrines of grace and the sovereignty of God, I'm sure one of us "hellishly blasphemous" believers of these doctrines will help you understand why you are wrong.

Enjoy your time here, honestly, enjoy it.

Soli Deo Gloria,
Dustin

 

Finney was very sound, and Calvinists have been engaging in a smear campaign against him recently becasue they are still mad at how effective he was in demolishing the Calvinist death-grip in America. And great revivals and salvations followed, far greater than ever before, and it just continues.

How nice these [people] say Finney is the reason for the apostate Seeker Sensitive movements and the Purpose driven movements. Anyone who has ACTUALLY READ Finney's Systematic Theolgy, his sermons and his great book Revival Lectures, and who has also read Rick Warren KNOWS the Calvinists are lying. I have challenged people to read both authros and then decide who they will listen to becasue they will have to choose, seeing they are diametrically opposed in every way. Rick warren is a Laodicean deceiver, and Charles Finney was a holy, anointed man of God full of the love and fire of God for lost souls and holiness. you don't know what you are talking about,

I don't need to refute "the doctrines of grace" Now if you would like me to refute what you believe, l Yes I will refute that--for that is the essense of Calvinism.

Free-will is a Bible term, Sovereignty of God is not.

 

While I'm not a calvinist, arminius you are WAY off! Please show the words "free will" in the Bible, if it is indeed a "Bible term".

To deny that God is sovereign is to deny God.

To classify Rick Warren as a "laodicean deceiver" really shows you have no clue what you are talking about. Before you come on here and start ripping into everybody, you should first know what you are talking about.

 

Your display name should be Pelagius. Charles Finney was an unregenerate naturalist at best. It's sad to see that the fruit of his and that of the Pelagians so alive and well today.

You are dead wrong with your final statement, and that is heresy.

I actually agree with webdog, if you deny God's sovereignty, you're denying the God of the Bible.

So according to your denial of very clear Biblical doctrine, I'm reporting your post.

By your claims on this and your other posts, I've nothing else to say but repent of your sin of denying the sovereign God of the Bible, and pray that He will favor you saving knowledge of His Son Jesus Christ. This is not something you yourself can do, it is the work of the Holy Spirt alone. If you are unclear of what exactly the Gospel is, I will gladly explain it to you.

I'll be praying for you.

Soli Deo Gloria,
Dustin

 

I'm sorry webdog, but it is you who doesn't know what he is talking about. I am well read on all these issues, and owns all the books. I do not speak on that which I have not studied out. It would be foolishness.

You ask where the term free-will is in the Bible??????? Have you actually READ the Bible? If you did, you wouldn't ask this question.

As far as this "Sovereignty of God" business, amazing how no one has posted one verse stating it. You just SAY the Bible teaches it.

As far as your comments about Finney, once again, all lies. You have clearly not read the man, and you have believed the reports by your fellow Calvinist- Nothing has changed. Charles Finney was an anointed man, Calvin was not. Finney led tens of thousand to the Lord, Calvin never led a sould to Christ, and as a mater of fact drove many away with his life and warped doctrines.

Rick Warren? Only someone who doesn't even know the free-will is a Bible term becasue they have noit READ the Bible would defend Rick Warren. Rick Warren's philosophy is derived from Peter Drucker, a business-growth Guru, whose book I read in college. Warren follows man's wisdom, which is foolishness with God.