The Christian & Politics

Discussion in 'Politics' started by evangelist6589, Jul 31, 2011.

  1. evangelist6589

    evangelist6589
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    I am reading two books at this time on this subject. One by Erwin Lutzer called Is God on Americas Side, and another by Charles Stanley called Turning the Tide. Both are very exciting reads so far. Lutzer has made some statements that have been clearly rebuffed in Stanley's book by scripture. Biblically speaking it is the responsibility of the Christian to be active and to influence our leaders. Just look at the lives of Nathan, Elijah, Daniel, and Nehemiah. This is not a book on Calvinism vs. Arminianism, so I politely ask that people that respond stay on topic and not go on tangents about your dislike of any of the authors and their views on the doctrine of Limited Atonement because its completely irrelevant for these books. There are a million books written on that subject and these are not on that subject.

    So what do you think is God on Americas side? Lutzer so far cant say for sure, but I think he has argued (at least up to chapter 2) that the 9/11 attacks were brought on by God as a judgment against out nation. Not sure what Stanley thinks about this, but I'll bet he may think the same. So what are your views on all this? Should a Christian get on their knees and pray everyday, and should we be political activists in the culture?


    John
     
  2. billwald

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    > Should a Christian get on their knees and pray everyday

    Yes. Should pray for Jesus' return. Everything else is a fall back position.
     
  3. Walguy

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    “We shouldn't worry so much about whether God is on our side as whether we're on his.” - Ronald Reagan. That's the real point, isn't it?
     
  4. Don

    Don
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    :thumbs::thumbs::thumbs::thumbs:
     
  5. ktn4eg

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    What Ronald Reagan said is absolutely true!

    "Blessed is the nation whose God is the LORD" [Ps. 33:12a] --- and the reverse is also correct as well.
     
  6. InTheLight

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    I don't think God is in the business of nation judging. He judges individuals.

    God is on the side of godly people. He is no more on America's side than he is on Canada's side or Brazil's side.

    The best thing for Christians to do is to be good witnesses and help to point and lead people to Christ. If they want to be political activists, that's fine, but I think it is wrong for preachers and others to make activism some sort of Christian responsibility.
     
  7. NiteShift

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    He used to do it all the time. Why did he stop?
     
  8. sag38

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    Good question. There's no reason why He wouldn't judge a nation.
     
  9. glfredrick

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    I think a great case can be built from Romans 13 and other sources in the Word, that if given the opportunity to materially participate in the operation of our government, in order to influence it and its leaders for godliness and good, we MUST, for we have an obligation to operate under the general authority of our nation's (in Scriptural terms, that of our king, but that is not the issue here) laws and rules. In our case, our Founders blessed us by giving us a godly worldview, where we CAN and MUST materially participate, and if we abdicate our duty, what we get is what we deserve.
     
  10. NiteShift

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    We can see in just the book of Jeremiah, for instance, God’s judgements on Moab, the Ammonites, the Edomites, Damascus, and Babylon, and even the "restoration of their fortunes". The idea of collective guilt and punishment just goes against the grain in modern Western thought.
    But I remember drill sergents punishing an entire platoon for one person's rebellion. If drill sergents can continue to do it I suppose the Lord can too if he so chooses!
     
  11. InTheLight

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    Because He commands us to go out into all nations and preach the gospel. Because most non-Muslim nations do not have state religions. These nations no longer worship idols and false gods. Because we are operating under grace, not under the law.
     
  12. billwald

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    Are there any NT writings that teach that God still judges nations in this dispensation?
     
  13. glfredrick

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    First you have to prove that this is a "dispensation." Then we can get on to the NT.
     
  14. NiteShift

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    Yes. And?

    Why are you excluding Muslims? They are 23% of the world's population. Also many other countries have de facto religions such as Hindu, Shinto, Buddhism etc.

    None of which precludes the chastening of nations. If there is any New Testament teaching that says the Father no longer does this then I do not know of it.
     
  15. NiteShift

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    Judgement upon households and towns -
    "And if any one will not receive you or listen to your words, shake off the dust from your feet as you leave that house or town. Truly, I say to you, it shall be more tolerable on the day of judgment for the land of Sodom and Gomor'rah than for that town."
     
  16. glfredrick

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    About a third of Revelation concerns God's judgments against nations and governments. As I recall, Revelation is also a NT book.

    Want something else? Check out Romans 13.

    Romans 13:1-7 (NASB) 1 Every person is to be in subjection to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those which exist are established by God. 2 Therefore whoever resists authority has opposed the ordinance of God; and they who have opposed will receive condemnation upon themselves. 3 For rulers are not a cause of fear for good behavior, but for evil. Do you want to have no fear of authority? Do what is good and you will have praise from the same; 4 for it is a minister of God to you for good. But if you do what is evil, be afraid; for it does not bear the sword for nothing; for it is a minister of God, an avenger who brings wrath on the one who practices evil. 5 Therefore it is necessary to be in subjection, not only because of wrath, but also for conscience' sake. 6 For because of this you also pay taxes, for rulers are servants of God, devoting themselves to this very thing. 7 Render to all what is due them: tax to whom tax is due; custom to whom custom; fear to whom fear; honor to whom honor.

    Also, Matthew 21:43 (YLT for clarity concerning the word "nation") though spolen in the context of Israel might rightly be seen as having inferences for any other nation who's God is not the Lord.

    Matt 21:43 (YLT) 43 `Because of this I say to you, that the reign of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth its fruit;


    And this:

    Matt 25:32 (YLT) 32 and gathered together before him shall be all the nations, and he shall separate them from one another, as the shepherd doth separate the sheep from the goats,


    And, perhaps one of the more clear pericopes in the NT concerning God's sovereignty over the nations is found in Paul's preaching to the Greeks at Mars Hill:

    Acts 17:24-31 (NASB) 24 "The God who made the world and all things in it, since He is Lord of heaven and earth, does not dwell in temples made with hands; 25 nor is He served by human hands, as though He needed anything, since He Himself gives to all people life and breath and all things; 26 and He made from one man every nation of mankind to live on all the face of the earth, having determined their appointed times and the boundaries of their habitation, 27 that they would seek God, if perhaps they might grope for Him and find Him, though He is not far from each one of us; 28 for in Him we live and move and exist , as even some of your own poets have said, 'For we also are His children.' 29 "Being then the children of God, we ought not to think that the Divine Nature is like gold or silver or stone, an image formed by the art and thought of man. 30 "Therefore having overlooked the times of ignorance, God is now declaring to men that all people everywhere should repent, 31 because He has fixed a day in which He will judge the world in righteousness through a Man whom He has appointed, having furnished proof to all men by raising Him from the dead."
     
  17. InTheLight

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    When is the last time that God spoke to a prophet and told him to warn the people? God no longer does that.

    If He is still in the nation judging business, when is the last time God judged a nation?
     
  18. glfredrick

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    Might I suggest, America, right now?

    While we might blame our current circumstances on a lot of issues, mostly political, the truth may indeed be that God has removed His lamp stand from our nation, and that we are in judgment. The fact that politics is no longer effective as a means to reconcile our difficulties, or that we seem to inherit "teflon" presidents left and right, who all seem to be marching us toward some as yet unknown (but dark) future, I see many signs that our glory days are behind us and that we are going away as a nation of influence for the gospel and for God's kingdom.

    As for prophets, God spoke, and the word He shared through them is just as valued today as when it was spoken.

    Heb 1:1-2 (NASB) 1 God, after He spoke long ago to the fathers in the prophets in many portions and in many ways, 2 in these last days has spoken to us in His Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the world.
     
  19. InTheLight

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    By saying that you are being a de facto prophet.

    Hmmm...I read that verse to say that in times past God spoke through prophets but now he speaks to us through Jesus Christ.
     
  20. glfredrick

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    Not really... I am not "forthtelling" anything concerning America, but rather observing what is happening before our very eyes.

    Do you have some sort of ax to grind about this (or me)?

    That's what it says...
     

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