The Christmas Story

Discussion in '2000-02 Archive' started by Kathy, Dec 1, 2001.

  1. Kathy

    Kathy
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    Which gospel has your favorite account of Christ's birth (i.e. The Christmas Story)?

    *JUST FOR FUN & INSPIRATION*

    Kathy
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  2. Dr. Bob

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    Am I missing something? There is only one!

    Luke tells the Christmas story.

    Matthew tells the story of Magi some two years later.

    Marks skips it all.

    And John starts in eternity past.

    Will check the Gospel of Thomas and the Gospel of Barnabas (I actually have copies of the pseudo-pygraphal and non-canonical books, but seldom look at them)
     
  3. Kathy

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    I apologize...Matthew gives Jesus' genealogy and explains how he was born of a virgin. Mark skips it as you said, Luke has all the details and John cuts to the chase so to speak...I'm sorry! LoL

    I recently heard a message about the virgin birth in Matthew...forgive my ignorance! Guess I need to read my Bible more often huh?

    I'm committed this coming year to do so...but as for the rest of this year, I'm in the OT right now...

    Man, do I feel dumb! Can you just delete this thread...*hehe* Or better yet, move it to the humor forum!

    Kathy
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    [ December 01, 2001: Message edited by: Kathy ]
     
  4. buzz

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    God's word does not give an account of the christmas story, only that Satan is the father of lies, christmas is based on a lie, is Jesus birth on dec 25/ NO it is not, is this a half truth or a white lie that the world says Jesus was born on Dec 25, well a half truth and a white lie are both LIES, and who is the father of lies, Satan

    God's word gives an account of the virgin birth, it is prophesy fulfilled, Praise the Lord. True believers in Jesus Christ know and believe he was born of a virgin.

    The world has taken and made HIS birth in to something that leads believers into a selfish celebration, full of tradition, and Mark 7:13 Making the word of God of nonne effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.

    What answer do you give your kids when they ask, was Jesus really born on Dec 25?
    Do you say no, no one really knows the exact day Jesus was born. And then say but it is alright to pick a day to celebrate it, and would you tell your kids that really it is a lie to celebrate something that is not really true, honestly we need to get serious with ourselves and be humble before the Lord our God, and get away from the selfishness in our lives.
    Do you then say, Jesus comes first in our house, we read the bible eat then we open our gifts, well you have just participated in the material world of selfishness, will you still enjoy it.

    How narrow is the road you travel on, only the narrow road leads to everlasting life, the more we rid our lives of the world and its ways and its pleasures the narrower our road becomes.
     
  5. Don

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    Celebrate something that is not true? Hardly.

    The birth of Christ is one of the truest things in the Bible. As such, we should celebrate it just as much as we celebrate our salvation through His birth, life, death, and resurrection.

    If I choose to celebrate it on Dec 25, or on April 1, however, is simply a matter of looking at my wife's grandmother's cousin: No one remembers exactly what day she was born, but they agree it was around 1898, and they agree it was after Valentine's Day. So they arbitrarily picked Feb 20 to celebrate her birth on.

    Tell you what: I'm going to celebrate Christ's birth, not Christmas. While I do it on a daily basis anyway, I'm also going to use a day to particularly re-read the birth story to my family, and show them the joy of giving a gift--just as God has given us a gift.

    Just my two cents worth....
     
  6. Dr. Bob

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    Kathy - Was NOT trying to make your question look foolish. Just wanting to know what you were asking. Btw, there are other NT passages that deal with the incarnation and that would be "fun" to put them all together ("in the fulness of times God sent his son")

    And Don - AMEN! We celebrate the incarnation and it really doesn't matter "when".

    Jesus was probably born in 6-7 BC and just prior to Passover (or maybe ON Passover) in the spring.

    The world linked his birth to Saturnalia and the pagan feast of the solstice. So? Is it a "sin" to celebrate it when WE chose? <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your sinful nature, God made you alive with Christ. He forgave us all our sins, having canceled the written code, with its regulations, that was against us and that stood opposed to us; he took it away, nailing it to the cross. And having disarmed the powers and authorities, he made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them by the cross.

    Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a new moon celebration or a sabbath day. These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
     
  7. Chris Temple

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    Luke 2. The Spirit converted me under it.

    There is a church I drove by for 7 years on the way to work. Every year at Christmas they put a giant roadside Bible (9' x 10')out for all to see. On it is Luke 2:11 "For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Saviour, which is Christ the Lord."

    For 7 years I looked at that sign and said "Oh, how nice". Then one cold morning in Dec 1994, I read the words and the Holy Spirit revealed to me what they said. I realized I was a sinner on the road to hell, but Christ reached out and called me to himself and saved me. I parked by the road and cried out for forgiveness.

    Luke will always be my favorite Christmas account.
     
  8. Don

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  9. DocCas

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    I am often amused by people who make sweeping statements concerning the timing for the first Advent. When was Jesus born? Should we abandon December 25th? Let's take a look.

    WHAT ABOUT DECEMBER 25th? COULD JESUS HAVE BEEN BORN ON "CHRISTMAS" DAY?

    DON'T JUST S**** IT, BUT FIRST, THINK ABOUT IT.

    Today it is popular for preachers and teachers to dispel the "myths" of Christmas. It makes for great sensationalism but not for great reason or accuracy. There are several aspects of the traditional Christmas story that are under fire. While no one can positively set the exact time and scene of the first Christmas there is no biblical necessity for s****ping the biggest majority of our traditional understanding of these events.

    I. Jesus could easily have been born on December 25.

    The traditional date of December 25 for Christmas may well be in the proper time frame even if it is not perfectly correct. It has been the date commemorated for almost 1800 years.

    Edersheim wrote, "There is no adequate reason for questioning the historical accuracy of this date. The objections generally made rest on grounds which seem to me historically untenable."

    "The subject has been fully discussed in an article by Cassel in Herzog's Real. Enc. xvii. pp.588-594. But a curious piece of evidence comes to us from a Jewish source. In the addition to the Megillath Taanith (ed. Warsh. p. 20) the 9th Tebheth is marked as a fast day, and it is added, but the reason for this addition is not stated. Now, Jewish chronologists have fixed on that day as that of Christ's birth, and it is remarkable that, between the years of 500 and 816 A.D. the 25th December fell no less than twelve times on the 9th Tebheth. If the 9th Tebheth, 25th December, was regarded as the birthday of Christ we can understand the concealment about it."

    II. The shepherds did stay in the fields in December.

    "Equally so was the belief that He (the birth of Messiah) was to be revealed from Migdal Eder, the 'tower of the flock.' This Migdal Eder was not the watch-tower for the ordinary flocks which pastured on the barren sheep ground beyond Bethlehem, but lay close to the town, on the road to Jerusalem. A passage in the Mishnah leads to the conclusion that the flocks, which pastured there, were destined for the temple-sacrifices, and, accordingly, that the shepherds, who watched over them, were not ordinary shepherds. The latter were under the ban of Rabbinism on account of their necessary isolation from religious ordinances, and their manner of life which rendered strict legal observance unlikely, if not impossible. The same Mishnic passage also leads us to infer that these flocks lay out all the year round, since they are spoken of as in the fields thirty days before the Passover--that is in the month of February when in Palestine the average rainfall is nearly greatest." Edersheim.

    III. The wise men came while Jesus was still an infant.

    There are several time landmarks in the gospels by which we can ascertain the time of the wise men's visit to the infant Christ.

    1. The taxing of the world by Caesar Augustus while Cyrenius was governor of Syria.

    2. The death of Herod the Great.

    3. The fifteenth year of Tiberius Caesar.

    4. Jesus's age at the beginning of his public ministry.

    Any time setting for the visit of the magi must be consistent with all four of these dates.

    Caesar Augustus reigned from 31 BC until 14 A.D. Cyrenius was governor of Syria in 8 BC and again in 7 AD. Augustus conducted censuses three times in Italy: 28 BC. 8 BC. and 14 AD. He taxed Gaul in 27 BC. Egypt was taxed every 14 years starting in 20 BC.

    While we have no direct local records of such taxing in Palestine there is no reason not to believe that Caesar ordered the census and taxation of Palestine during the first governorship of Cyrenius. This helps to validate the general history of the account but is not specific enough to help us in the actual time placement of events.

    Luke 3:1 tells us that John began his ministry in the fifteenth year of Tiberius Caesar. The same chapter v. 23 says that Jesus was baptized and began his public ministry when he "began to be about thirty years old." Tiberius came to the royal purple in 14 A.D. Working forward, his fifteenth year (counting the year of ascendancy as a year) would be A.D. 27. Subtracting the 30 years of Jesus's age brings us to 4 BC. Jesus must have been born between August of 5 BC and April of 4 BC (the month in which Herod died.)

    Historically we know that Herod left Jerusalem a few months before he died so that February of 4 BC is the latest that the wise men could have found him in Jerusalem. Even if Jesus was born in late August of 5 BC he could not have been more than five months old when worshiped by the wise men.

    In Luke 1:5 we see additional evidence for the December 25th date for Christ's birth.

    John the Baptist's father was said to serve in the Temple and was of the course of Abia, one of the twenty-four classes or courses of priests according to 1 Chron 24.

    Each course served for one week, twice a year. During the special sabbaths all of the courses served.

    It was while he was serving in the Temple that the announcement of the birth of John was made to him. Elizabeth conceived after his course of duty in the Temple.

    John was six months older then the Lord.

    When did the course of Abiah serve? According to the Misna, from the third week to the fourth week of September. So, if John was conceived in late September, he would have been born 9 months later, in late June. If Christ was six months younger, He would have been born in late December! The 25th would be about right! [​IMG]

    Think About It!
     
  10. Aaron

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    Very interesting. Thanx!
     

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