The Churches main issue

Discussion in 'Bible Versions/Translations' started by stilllearning, Jun 14, 2010.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. stilllearning

    stilllearning
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2008
    Messages:
    1,814
    Likes Received:
    2
    Over the last few hundred years, there has only been one issue important enough, to cause Baptists to separate company from each other.

    And this is still the main issue today.

    From the Landmark Baptist, to the General Assembly of Regular Baptists, to the Baptist Bible fellowship, etc, etc,.......the main issue has always been God’s Word.....

    i.e. Has God preserved His Word in one book, that we can hold in our hands and know that we have a complete and accurate copy of it?
    --------------------------------------------------
    This is the way Paul put it........
    2 Timothy 3:14-17
    V.14 But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned [them];
    V.15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
    V.16 All scripture [is] given by inspiration of God, and [is] profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
    V.17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

    God knew that over the centuries, deceivers would try and tell the Church that the Bible can be improved upon and made more accurate:
    And to this God tells us........
    “But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of”

    And they would try and tell us, that we have been miss informed:
    Therefore we are to remember.......
    “that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise”

    Also, that doubt would be cast, upon the validity of the Bible that we trust:
    And He reminds us..........
    “All scripture [is] given by inspiration of God,”
    --------------------------------------------------
    The Bible settles this issue for me.
     
  2. sag38

    sag38
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2008
    Messages:
    4,394
    Likes Received:
    1
    The KJV may be a hill to die on for some zealots but most divisions come from theinterpretation of the Word without much consideration of the translation or version.
     
  3. annsni

    annsni
    Expand Collapse
    Administrator
    Administrator

    Joined:
    May 30, 2006
    Messages:
    20,155
    Likes Received:
    365
    I disagree that this is the church's main issue. The main issue is God.

    Oh! You mean the church's main PROBLEM? Oh right! It's man-made doctrines that are the main problems.
     
  4. Salty

    Salty
    Expand Collapse
    20,000 Posts Club
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2003
    Messages:
    22,085
    Likes Received:
    218
    I disagree - some groups make a big issue, but many others do not. There are many issues that separate us Baptists from the day of worship; to CCM (or lack thereof) to 1,2,3,4,5,6 points of Calvinism; to communion; eating in the church building; women in the ministry; to (fill in the blank).

    I do agree with Sag as often it is the interpretation.

    Check out this little story.....
     
  5. jbh28

    jbh28
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2008
    Messages:
    3,761
    Likes Received:
    0
    Actually, the issue is with interpretation of the Scriptures, the the Scriptures themselves. Just like the Mormons use the KJV and the JW's used the KJV for many years. The issue of doctrine isn't about the translation, but how you use the Bible.
    You speaking of a 100% perfect copy that is complete from Genesis to Revelation bound in one book....God never promised anything like that. God did promise to preserve His Word. It didn't come to us in a bound Gen-Rev copy and there is no promise that it would be perfectly copied down in that form. However, we can be sure that God has perserved his words and we have some very good translations in the KJV, ESV, NASB, NKJV and even the NIV.

    Who do you know is trying to improve upon the Bible? We all want to have in English exactly what God originally wrote in his word.
    Anybody here try to case doubt on the validity of the Bible?
     
  6. John of Japan

    John of Japan
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2005
    Messages:
    12,208
    Likes Received:
    192
    Actually, there have been many other extremely serious problems over the years that have caused Baptists to separate from each other. I suggest that you really need to study Baptist history before making such sweeping, mistaken statements. Here are just a few of the splits (there have been others):

    (1) The general and particular Baptists split over Calvinism.
    (2) In the late 19th century the Baptist Union of Britain split over higher criticism, with Charles Spurgeon leading the opposition, and eventually separating from the BU.
    (3) A huge split over liberalism occurred among the Northern Baptists in the first half of the 20th century, with many coming out to form the Conservative Baptist group, and then others coming out of them to form the Fundamental Baptist Fellowship. My own mission board was formed by the fundamentalists who came out of the Conservative Baptists after their pleas for doctrinal purity on the mission field went unanswered.
    (4) Various splits occured among the Southern Baptists in the 20th century that were not connected with preservation. My own grandfather was blackballed by the Texas Baptist Convention over evolution being taught in Baylor U. Many others left the SBC over liberalism to form the independent Baptist movement during the first half of the 20th century. Then a further split in the SBC occurred beginning in the 1970s over theological liberalism, in particular the issue of Biblical inerrancy (not preservation).

    Concerning splitting over the issue of Biblical preservation, there are still many independent Baptists who fellowship with each other despite differences over the doctrine and how it should be stated. I would like to know of any Scriptures that command us to separate from one another over the issue of preservation. I know of none. The Scriptures you gave don't address this.
     
    #6 John of Japan, Jun 14, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 14, 2010
  7. preachinjesus

    preachinjesus
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member
    Supporter

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2004
    Messages:
    7,406
    Likes Received:
    99
    Seeing as the vast majority of Christians either don't speak English or have never had access to an English Bible this isn't the Church's (notice the proper grammar) biggest problem.

    Though advocating for this as the problem might be part of the real problem...;)
     
  8. stilllearning

    stilllearning
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2008
    Messages:
    1,814
    Likes Received:
    2
    Hello everyone

    Why does everyone here insist on always making this a KJVO issue, every time.

    My OP never said anything about the KJV;
    Here is what I said.........
    The issue, is having a simple respect for God’s Word.
    --------------------------------------------------
    As I have said many, many times before, it is of vital importance that a Christian have a Bible(one Bible), that can be the absolute authority in there life, no matter what language they may speak.

    Now, when anyone here, hears the argument for “one Bible”, you automatically think of the KJV.
    [Bible attack deleted]
     
    #8 stilllearning, Jun 14, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 15, 2010
  9. sag38

    sag38
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2008
    Messages:
    4,394
    Likes Received:
    1
    SL, you are not some little innocent lamb who popped in here with some off the wall statement. We all know your position and unless you are really more specific with your comments then we assume that anything you say has a KJVO cloak thrown over it.
     
  10. annsni

    annsni
    Expand Collapse
    Administrator
    Administrator

    Joined:
    May 30, 2006
    Messages:
    20,155
    Likes Received:
    365
    Oh - the NASB, ESV and NIV all stand on their own as well and are God's Word as much as the KJV is. These are the versions I use and I know that there are many others that are wonderful as well. The one Bible that stands out? The Holy Bible. :)
     
  11. NaasPreacher (C4K)

    NaasPreacher (C4K)
    Expand Collapse
    Administrator
    Administrator

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2003
    Messages:
    26,806
    Likes Received:
    78
    Your entire premise if flawed. Baptists have separated over:

    Points of Calvinism
    Standards of personal separation
    -Hair length
    -Women in trousers
    -Mixed swimming
    -Hats on women
    -Going to movies
    -Wire rimmed glasses
    -Wearing jeans
    Liberalism
    Evolution
    Concepts of local vs universal church
    Music and worship styles


    And many, many, many others.

    It has only been about 50 years since one segment of Baptists began the practice of dividing over translations. Most Baptists don't split over the issue. It is only one tiny segment, a blip on the screen.

    Why would brethren divide over something the word of God never addresses?
     
    #11 NaasPreacher (C4K), Jun 15, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 15, 2010
  12. Jim1999

    Jim1999
    Expand Collapse
    <img src =/Jim1999.jpg>

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2002
    Messages:
    15,460
    Likes Received:
    0
    We used to have a saying, "Two baptists in the same room and three opinions." It seems to have held water over my lifetime.

    Cheers,

    Jim
     
  13. NaasPreacher (C4K)

    NaasPreacher (C4K)
    Expand Collapse
    Administrator
    Administrator

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2003
    Messages:
    26,806
    Likes Received:
    78
  14. stilllearning

    stilllearning
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2008
    Messages:
    1,814
    Likes Received:
    2
    Hi C4K

    Funny story, but someone who is truly a “Conservative Independent Baptist”, wouldn’t support the modern English versions .
     
  15. NaasPreacher (C4K)

    NaasPreacher (C4K)
    Expand Collapse
    Administrator
    Administrator

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2003
    Messages:
    26,806
    Likes Received:
    78
    Wrong. Most of the Conservative Independent Baptists I know have no problem with modern English translations. Only an incredibly tiny segment do have an issue.

    In fact, can those who make an issue over a topic never addressed in the word of God really be conservative?
     
    #15 NaasPreacher (C4K), Jun 15, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 15, 2010
  16. God's_Servant

    God's_Servant
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2009
    Messages:
    81
    Likes Received:
    0
    I am a conservative Independent Baptist and I support modern English translations.
     
  17. NaasPreacher (C4K)

    NaasPreacher (C4K)
    Expand Collapse
    Administrator
    Administrator

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2003
    Messages:
    26,806
    Likes Received:
    78
    Let me get this straight. A Conservative Independent Baptist would only support a translation that was ordered by the government and translated by a team that was overwhelming Anglican?
     
  18. jbh28

    jbh28
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2008
    Messages:
    3,761
    Likes Received:
    0
    Stilllearning, is this something that you have come to know through experience(all conservative independent baptists you know are kjv only) or is this your thinking that someone that supports a modern version isn't a true conservative independent baptist. I do question as to how does that go about? Obviously being an independent baptist doesn't make them kjv only. And reading a modern version doesn't make a person not be conservative. I would say I'm an independent baptist and I'm conservative and I use the ESV.

    You might want to be careful how your characterize people. You post is on the boarder of attacking your brothers and sisters in Christ. If you want to discuss the modern versions vs the KJV, thats fine, but don't start assuming people are liberal(I know you didn't use the term) because they use a modern version of the Scripture.
     
  19. annsni

    annsni
    Expand Collapse
    Administrator
    Administrator

    Joined:
    May 30, 2006
    Messages:
    20,155
    Likes Received:
    365
    I'm a conservative independent Baptist and I fully support the modern English versions as well - as does my church.
     
  20. Dr. Bob

    Dr. Bob
    Expand Collapse
    Administrator
    Administrator

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2000
    Messages:
    29,402
    Likes Received:
    12
    I am a historic particular fundamentalist Baptist and I practice separation from false teaching. When "onlyism" was brought up from the pit by the Seventh Day Adventist, I opposed it. When some "baptists" adopted that schismatic view, I opposed them.

    Separation from evil is not just evil "men"; it is evil "doctrine". That has been the hill Baptists have died on for 400 years.

    BTW, the Anglicans who translated the Anglican Version had special treatment for the hated Baptists. On April 11, 1611, Baptist pastor Edward Wightman became the last religious martyr to be burnt at the stake in England!!

    Thomas Helwys, pastor of the first English Baptist church fled England. His wife was imprisoned and banished. But in 1611 they returned to England. He was arrested and died in prison at age 39.

    Yep, we have an issue - to fight false doctrine and die standing for truth.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page

Loading...