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Featured The coming apostasy and the man of sin (2 Thess 2:1-5)

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by AndThisGospel, Feb 1, 2017.

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  1. AndThisGospel

    AndThisGospel Member

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    1 "Now we request you, brethren, with regard to the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, 2 that you not be quickly shaken from your composure or be disturbed either by a spirit or a message or a letter as if from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord has come. 3 Let no one in any way deceive you, for it (the 2nd coming) will not come unless the apostasy comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction, 4 who opposes and exalts himself above every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, displaying himself as being God."
     
  2. AndThisGospel

    AndThisGospel Member

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    What is apostasy, is it backsliding? No! Apostasy is premeditated abandonment of Jesus Christ.

    The warning above is really not for the Thessalonian brethren, but for Christians just prior to the second coming. Apparently believers are not "once saved, always saved" as the Calvinist insist. Clearly the "man of lawlessness" will deceive (see verse 10) those believers who are rooted and ground in Christ:

    "They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved."

    Saved from what? The context is the deceptive power of the man of lawlessness. After all the man of lawlessness presents himself as God sitting in His temple.

    Those who are not rooted and grounded in the gospel will apostatize.
     
  3. Martin Marprelate

    Martin Marprelate Well-Known Member
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    Correct!
    I understand that Calvin is a sort of Emmanuel Goldstein figure to you, but you will search in vain for 'once saved, always saved' in any of his writings and if you think all Calvinists believe it, you are very much mistaken. What he and other Reformers, Puritans and early Baptists taught was the 'Perseverance of the saints.' [/QUOTE]
    "They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved."

    Saved from what? The context is the deceptive power of the man of lawlessness. After all the man of lawlessness presents himself as God sitting in His temple.

    Those who are not rooted and grounded in the gospel will apostatize.[/QUOTE]
    "For false christs and false prophets will rise and show signs and wonders to deceive if possible, even the elect" (Mark 13:22). But of course, it's not possible, for no one can pluck Christ's sheep out of His hand (John 10:28. Perseverance of the saints. God roots and grounds His elect in the Gospel. :)
     
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  4. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    The Lord knows and keeps His own, for we have been sealed by the Holy Spirit..
     
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  5. AndThisGospel

    AndThisGospel Member

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    Really? Verse!
     
  6. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Ephesians 1:13 Sealed with Holy Spirit of promise!

    Paul also stated that the Spirit Himself isan earnest pledge/down payment, that ALL saved will get resurrected by Jesus!
     
    #6 Yeshua1, Feb 4, 2017
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2017
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  7. AndThisGospel

    AndThisGospel Member

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    What was the promise? Believe and I'll send you the holy spirit.....The seal of belief is you receive the holy spirit. That's all! It doesn't mean once saved always saved. You are ultimately saved if you don't harden your heart against the Holy Spirit.

    Heb 6:4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, 5 and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, 6 if they fall away (abandon Christ), to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame

    Heb 3:12 Beware, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief in departing from the living God; 13 but exhort one another daily, while it is called “Today,” lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. 14 For we have become partakers of Christ if we hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast to the end
     
  8. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Paul stated that this sealing was an earnest pledge towards the coming inheritance, so God will bringto Heaven ALL sealed by Himself! Can you undo and break the Holy Spirit seal? If yes, tehn you must be greater than God!
     
  9. AndThisGospel

    AndThisGospel Member

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    Please stop "fat fingering" your messages...they are hard to read.

    What you've done is essentially made of non-effect all of Paul's warnings. If it were impossible to abandon Christ then Paul had it wrong and we should follow you. That isn't going to happen....

    Ephesians 4:30 "Do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption."

    IF we are sealed, as from your point of view, then it doesn't matter if we grieve the Holy Spirit.

    But, if we go with Paul's warning, then it is possible for one to harden his heart against the Holy Spirit and reject "the blood of the covenant that sanctified (sealed)" him.
     
    #9 AndThisGospel, Feb 7, 2017
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2017
  10. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    We can grieve the Spirit, but not to he point of Him leaving us!
     
  11. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    "They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved."

    Saved from what? The context is the deceptive power of the man of lawlessness. After all the man of lawlessness presents himself as God sitting in His temple.

    Those who are not rooted and grounded in the gospel will apostatize.[/QUOTE]
    "For false christs and false prophets will rise and show signs and wonders to deceive if possible, even the elect" (Mark 13:22). But of course, it's not possible, for no one can pluck Christ's sheep out of His hand (John 10:28. Perseverance of the saints. God roots and grounds His elect in the Gospel. :)[/QUOTE]
    Those who are lost will take on Mark of the Beast, while those who are aved are marked and sealed by the Holy Spirit
     
  12. StefanM

    StefanM Well-Known Member
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    Why is everything so exciting?!

    Exclamation points are everywhere!
     
  13. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Guess it was presentined!
     
  14. StefanM

    StefanM Well-Known Member
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    Perhaps! But can you use a period?!
     
  15. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Yes.
     
  16. StefanM

    StefanM Well-Known Member
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    :)
     
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