The Command of GOD

Discussion in 'Calvinism/Arminianism Debate' started by utilyan, Jul 16, 2016.

  1. utilyan

    utilyan
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    People have said God does not want everyone to go to heaven.


    When God wants something followed, something obeyed it is called a command.
    Disobedience to the command is sin.
    Show us where a reprobate does not sin.
    My understanding God commands all people to not sin. In other words he specifically wants no one to sin.
    If God wants no one to sin, that initial intention is universal salvation. Its the refusal and disobedience which puts one in sin.
    Going to hell itself is a sin.
     
  2. Revmitchell

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    Quite a convoluted post.
     
  3. utilyan

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    God wants exactly as he commands.
     
  4. utilyan

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    When God commands something that means that is exactly what he WANTS and what HE DESIRES.

    For a Calvinist to be able to keep his theology he needs the above statement to not be true.

    Because God wants NO ONE to sin, and GOD wants ALL to Love God and Love neighbor, God wants all to follow Jesus.

    This equates to GOD wants and desires for ALL PEOPLE to be SAVED.
     
  5. Martin Marprelate

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    God commands 'All men everywhere to repent' (Acts 17:30; cf. Mark 1:15 etc.).
     
  6. Smyth

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    Utlyan, you believe salvation is a result of personal effort. I believe salvation is through the gift of faith, and by no merit of our own. If God wanted everyone to be saved, everyone would be saved, but God made some people for destruction.

    We are slaves to sin, and without God, we cannot repent of sin.
     
  7. utilyan

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    No don't believe its a result of works NOR do I think its a result of my faith. It is a result of Jesus and the cross.

    Smyth all you have to do to put me on board with God WANTING folks to be damned is for you to explain that a COMMAND of God is not what he WANTS.

    Piece of Cake right?


    Consider a "reprobate" who sins, He has SINNED. It almost sounds like he is doing something GOD does not WANT him to do.

    Or are you saying they are doing exactly as God wanted?
     
  8. Smyth

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    God hardened the heart of Pharaoh, did God want the Pharaoh's heart to be hard?
     
  9. utilyan

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    Read closely Pharaoh harden his heart and God responded by doing it more.

    God has done that for me too to the point my anger is so ridiculous I drop it.

    And I can tell you God planned to harden my heart from the beginning.

    How many times you ever heard of someone overreacting? Throwing a temper tantrum? Some lucky enough to realize the stupidity of it.

    That said, God can damn and take to heaven whoever he wants regardless of legalism involved to his good pleasure.

    God can do what he wants.

    So if you think the question has anything to do with what he does over here or over there, or question whether God can't do what he wants, you are SADLY mistaken.

    Smyth there is no reason the original question should be trouble to answer.

    If you find your self in a un reconcilable dilemma, Might as well plead the spiritual 5th amendment.

    God COMMANDS you not to sin, Its abundantly clear his command proclaims his DESIRE and WANT.

    When a reprobate sins do you think he breaking the COMMAND, DESIRE and WANT of GOD?

    If God tells you DON'T SIN, isn't it simply OBVIOUS he does not want sin?
     
  10. tyndale1946

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    Do you brethren on here believe there is a sin nature?... If not what do you do with the remarks made by the Apostle Paul in Romans... Because according to Paul there is or do we pretend it's not even in the Bible?... Brother Glen

    Romans 7:9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.

    7:10 And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death.

    7:11 For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me.

    7:12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.

    7:13 Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.

    7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.

    7:15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.

    7:16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.

    7:17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

    7:18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.

    7:19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.

    7:20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

    7:21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.

    7:22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:

    7:23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.

    7:24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?

    7:25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.
     
  11. Smyth

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    I'm Calvinist. We sin because we're slaves to sin, unless God makes his slaves to righteousness. In a way, it is God's will that we sin. Even non-Calvinists recognize our sin nature and our inability to please God on our own.

    How can I choose not to sin on my own, in response to God's instruction to sin no more? From a human perspective, I have that choice. But, it is God who chooses for me to, or not to, obey his instruction.

    I respect your position on the subject. I respect the belief that God meets us halfway. But, I think that doctrine is just a compromise we make in trying to understand things beyond us.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  12. tyndale1946

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    Need more convincing... Brother Glen

    1 John 1:6 If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:

    1:7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

    1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

    1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

    1:10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.
     
  13. Smyth

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    I've read the Bible. I know what it says and I believe it agrees with me. What do you think the point is in quoting verses without explanation? That somehow if your name is on the same screen as those verses, that those verses will look different?
     
  14. tyndale1946

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    It seems we are of the same cloth are we not?... I am not quoting them for your benefit but for the one who started the post... Just attaching those verses of scripture that supports your POV and mine... The scriptures explain themselves... They say exactly what they say they mean... They interpret themselves... Brother Glen
     
  15. utilyan

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    Smyth everything you said can fly. I can give that a pass. The whole Tulip can work.

    If it helps look I can go on board as a Calvinist. I don't know how my heart beats, That is all God's grace and will. He desires that I live so I do. There is ALOT more in God's hands then just my being good and evil. I can understand the Tulip in a way where CLEARLY God is righteous, not evil in character, JUST, not deceptive.

    God has the power to do ANYTHING HE WANTS including to predestine a free will.


    But now I'm asking you to face a simple question that is centered around God's WANT, God's Desire.

    When a reprobate sins do you think he breaking the COMMAND, DESIRE and WANT of GOD?
    If God tells you DON'T SIN, isn't it simply OBVIOUS he does not want sin?



    I can answer these questions very easily. Its common sense. And the cherry on top it is a JOY to answer especially if your the type of soul who cares for and loves everyone on earth to easily express God as the MOST KIND, MOST LOVING, PERFECT MERCY and believing it not just "calling" it good and not sincerely believing it all.

    Everyone in Korea says Kim Jon is the sweetest most loving dictator.

    I call God GOOD without a divine gun being held to my head. He really is the Goodness, the perfect Hero.

    Did I say there is no hell? Nope. There is a hell and all those there are not elect. All people who end up in heaven are elect.

    I felt the need to state this^ because I can sense a panic and fear towards answering the questions and here it is again:

    When a reprobate sins do you think he breaking the COMMAND, DESIRE and WANT of GOD?
    If God tells you DON'T SIN, isn't it simply OBVIOUS he does not want sin?
     
    #15 utilyan, Jul 24, 2016
    Last edited: Jul 24, 2016
  16. The Biblicist

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    You fail to distinguish between accountability and ability. Man is accountable to God's commandments but DUE TO HIS OWN SIN he has lost the ability to obey those commandments (Rom.8:7 - more accurately he has no desire to obey but is in a state of enmity against God and his commandments) and comes into this world "condemned already" due to his sin in Adam.

    Therefore, based strictly upon justice God could condemn the whole human race to hell immediately at the fall or any time thereafter. Salvation is by grace (undeserved) and an act of mercy (something that cannot be demanded).
     
  17. utilyan

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    I could agree with what you said. You still have not answered the question.

    When a reprobate sins do you think he is breaking the COMMAND, DESIRE and WANT of GOD?
    If God tells you DON'T SIN, isn't it simply OBVIOUS he does not want sin?




    The Devil knows if you answer these questions the falsehood is in jeopardy. Christians can answer these questions easily. Satan will have one attack my character, dodge and evade. Trust in Jesus, ask Jesus these questions, pray about it.
     
    #17 utilyan, Jul 25, 2016
    Last edited: Jul 25, 2016

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