The Commandments

Hi Joe, I try not to come across too harshly. Sometimes a stern word is needed, but not all the time.

Okay, here is why I don't follow the Levitical practice in regards to unclean meats...

Acts 10:10 And he became very hungry, and would have eaten: but while they made ready, he fell into a trance,
Acts 10:11 And saw heaven opened, and a certain vessel descending unto him, as it had been a great sheet knit at the four corners, and let down to the earth:
Acts 10:12 Wherein were all manner of fourfooted beasts of the earth, and wild beasts, and creeping things, and fowls of the air.
Acts 10:13 And there came a voice to him, Rise, Peter; kill, and eat.
Acts 10:14 But Peter said, Not so, Lord; for I have never eaten any thing that is common or unclean.
Acts 10:15 And the voice spake unto him again the second time, What God hath cleansed, that call not thou common.
Acts 10:16 This was done thrice: and the vessel was received up again into heaven.
Acts 10:17 Now while Peter doubted in himself what this vision which he had seen should mean, behold, the men which were sent from Cornelius had made inquiry for Simon's house, and stood before the gate,

Here in a vision God shows the apostle Peter "ALL MANNER" of four footed animals, creeping things (insects), and fowls of the air. "ALL MANNER" would include those that were called "UNCLEAN" in the Old Testament. And God tells him to rise and eat. Why would God tell Peter to do something that is sin? He didn't, notice what the apostle Peter said: "Not so, Lord; for I have never eaten anything common or unclean." It is obvious that there were unclean animals on this sheet. But notice what the Lord said? He said: "What God hath CLEANSED, call not thou common." Therefore, God Himself said that the unclean animals are now clean.

Okay, some argue this was a vision to show the apostle Peter that the Gentiles are now clean. That is true, but it doesn't change what God used in the vision or what God said about the unclean animals being made clean. So pork it up; what was unclean was made clean by God.

You hit the nail on the head; sin is sin whether it is intentionally committed or unintentionally committed. I don't work on the sabbath day. I used to mow the lawn on the sabbath, because to me I viewed "no working" as meaning not earning wages, and to me mowing is relaxing; I enjoy it. I intentionally mowed the lawn on the sabbath day, but not with the intentions of sinning against God; to me what I was doing wasn't wrong, but then I actually read what the 4th commandment says, and it says that nobody is to work "WITHIN" your gates. This would be talking about household chores, which would include mowing.

See, it doesn't matter how I view mowing the lawn, what matters is how God views mowing the lawn. I can say there is nothing wrong with it, but that doesn't mean it would be true. So as a precaution, I don't mow on Saturdays; I'd rather not mow on Saturdays, and go to heaven, rather than mow on Saturdays and burn in the lake of fire.

Joe here is the problem I have with what you said. by saying that you you believe you are not under the law, "EXCEPT IN FOLLOWING THE TEN COMMANDMENTS" this tells me that you agree that God expects us to follow His commandments. Yes or no? If yes, then here is a huge problem: you said, "yet stick with the IDEA I will not be able to follow the ten commandments completely." Why would God expect you to follow the commandments if following His commandments cannot be done? So is the idea that the commandments cannot be followed a Biblical idea or a man made idea?

The issue isn't whether you "CAN" or "CAN'T" obey the commandments. The issue is "WILL" you or "WON'T" you obey the commandments. If I kill, it won't be because I "CAN'T" obey the 6th commandment, it will be because I won't obey the 6th commandment. This same principle applies to "ALL" ten commandments.

This is in regards to Matthew 19:16-17 where Jesus tells the rich man if he wants to enter into eternal life he must obey the commandments. Isn't what Jesus said to the rich man confirmed in Revelation?

Revelation 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

Jesus told the rich man if he wanted to "ENTER" into eternal life, he must obey the commandments, in Revelation 22:14 we are told that those who obey the commandments shall have right to the tree of life. Will those who do not obey have the right to the tree of life?

I say this in a godly love. May your eyes be opened to see the truth so that you can escape the error of those who have taught you. Remember, it is the Word of God that says the "WHOLE" duty of man is to obey the commandments; it is the word of man that says obedience cannot be done. It is God who wants you to repent, and come to heaven, it is the devil that wants you to sin and share his fate. It is your choice to either disobey God or to obey God. The devil can't force you to choose his will, and God won't force you to choose His will; it is entirely up to you.

In the name of Jesus Christ,

Ken

 

This is in response to the post made by reformedbaptist.

So that there is no confusion let me say this:

A person is NOT saved by works. A person can begin to obey the commandments today, and burn in hell tomorrow, because obedience to the commandments is NOT what saves you. What saves you is your faith on Jesus Christ who shed His blood for the remission of sins. This was done out of God's grace, NOT out of our works.

That said, let's discuss the life "AFTER" becoming saved. After I am saved reformedbaptist, can I disobey the commandments? I know you will say no, because I know Baptist do not teach that it is okay to sin, so let me skip to the next question. If I disobey the commandments will I go to heaven? If you answer this, I don't mind if you give reasoning, but please begin with a simple yes or no first so I don't have to try to decode your post to figure out your answer.

In the name of Jesus Christ,

Ken

 

He who "practices" sin is of the devil? What the Bible says is...

1John 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

Let's look at that word "committeth".

The word committeth used in 1John 3:8 is translated from the Greek word poieō (poy-eh'-o) which means to make or to do. Some Bible versions has taken the word committeth and changed it to practices. By doing so people can easily argue how we will commit ocassional sin, but it is the habitual sinning that shows who the children of the devil are.

Let's look at this with logic. If you knew a person who robbed bank you wouldn't say: "Well, he robbed a bank, but he might not be a bank robber." No, you wouldn't have to wait for a person to habitually rob banks to determine whether he is a bank robber or not. Of course it would be hard to believe that a person could rob a bank NOT knowing what they are doing is wrong.

Now let's apply this logic to a person you KNOW professes to be a Christian. You see this person in a store reading a horoscope. Certainly you can't say "Oh my Jenny is a child of the devil!" Because Jenny may be doing this without knowing that what she is doing is a sin. So you talk to Jenny, and show her error with Scripture, and now she KNOWS reading the horoscopes is sin. She now has a choice to make; either to not read the horoscopes or to continue reading the horoscopes.

The next time you see her, sure enough you see she is reading the horoscopes again. Now, would you have to wait until she does it again to determine whether she is a child of God or not? No, now you KNOWthat she KNOWS what the Scriptures says, and here she is blatantly disobeying the Word of God; that would prove whose child she REALLY is.

Does that mean she LOST her salvation? Well, how can God overlook her sin if she doesn't repent of it? Repent means to STOP sinning, not just feeling sorry and desiring to change. I can feel sorry for doing wrong, and not stop. My feeling sorry wouldn't make the wrong I do right. So would God overlook her sin and say "Well done my "UNFAITHFUL" servant come into my rest." He couldn't say faithful when she was unfaithful.

Does that means she was NEVER SAVED TO BEGIN WITH? How can you know? We do not have the ability to know people's hearts only God does. The only thing we can know is what they are by their fruit they produce.

In the name of Jesus Christ,

Ken

 

You're welcome. My favorite is Lobster tail and steak. What I find funny is a lady once asked me if I knew that Lobster are bottom feeders? I said yes. She said, don't you know what bottom feeders eat? I said yes. She said "That's gross" I replied "You think so?" She said yes. This was at a cat fish fish fry. I just laughed.

Good question about if I died right after I mowed the lawn if I would go to hell. But my belief is that God not wanting anyone to perish would give me the opportunity to see the truth, and correct myself. I don't think God would allow me to die without having an opportunity to repent of not keeping the sabbath day holy.

As far as when the "urge" to sin comes, I picture temptation. When we are tempted it is going to be for things that are for the flesh. It would be hard for an evil spirit to tempt me to mow the lawn. I mean it isn't like I see the lawn mower and immediately begin to drool in anticipation of mowing the lawn. Yes I like mowing the lawn, but not that much

This is where the water gets muddy. A person can easily say you are making Jesus a license to sin. You can say your not, but look at your response. You said God expects us to follow them (His ten commandments), but also gives us Jesus to cover our sins when we don't follow them perfectly.

Again if God expects us to follow His commandments but knows we can't and sent His Son to as you put it to fill in where we fail, then why should I attempt to obey any of the commandments? Can't I just sin when I want, say sorry to God and ask Him to forgive me and move on? Amazingly there are people who say yes to this, but then I have to wonder what the sense of Jesus' death? Because God could have kept the OT ways in tact and overlook sin. Jesus didn't have to shed His blood to enable us to continue to disobey God.

But Joe, the apostle Paul also said...

Romans 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Romans 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
Romans 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
Romans 8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

When the apostle Paul spoke of his struggles with sin in chapter 7, was it before or after he was saved? If after he was saved, then by doing what he didn't want to do, which was sin; wasn't that him walking after the flesh, and not the Spirit?

To sin you have to walk after the flesh not the Spirit Joe. Therefore, in the state the apostle Paul was in during his struggle with sin, it wasn't while he was "IN" Christ, it was when he was walking after the flesh. So Romans 8:1-4 wouldn't have applied to him.

But if his struggle with sin was before he became saved, then by becoming saved he became free from sin, which would then include him in Romans 8:1-4, because he would have ceased from living according to his flesh, and he would have now been living according to the Spirit.

In the name of Jesus Christ,

Ken

PS. A reply to the rest of your post is coming.

 

Joe, if the purpose of Jesus' death was to make it so that we don't go to hell by disobeying God, couldn't have God left the Old Testament in tact? I mean if the purpose of Jesus' blood was to enable us to sin, then what would be the sense of His death? Couldn't God just as easily overlook our sins with the blood of bulls and goats?

No I do not believe Jesus died for unintentional sin only, but I also do not believe He died so that we can intentionally sin either. I mean, I do not believe that I KNOWING what adultery is can go out, commit adultery and simply ask God to forgive me. That would be like going out throwing a brick through your neighbors window, and saying "ooops, sorry about that". Only to later do it again, and then again, and then again.

Me mowing the lawn on the sabbath day was unintentional, not intentional. I didn't know that no work included mowing etc. I thought no work meant no earning wages. Now I do know, and knowing that, I can't go and intentionally mow the lawn on the sabbath day KNOWING that it is against God, and after wards wipe the sweat from brow, quench my thirst with some lemonade as I sit in the shade of a mighty Oak tree, and say "ooops sorry about that God, I'll try not to do it again." only to do it again later.

Hebrews 10:26 For if we sin willfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
Hebrews 10:27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
Hebrews 10:28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
Hebrews 10:29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?

For me to intentionally mow the lawn on the sabbath day I would have to do a tap dance on Jesus as I trodden Him under my foot, as I deliberately commit sin "KNOWING" the truth. If I do that I only have one thing to look forward to, and I would really not want that.

There are different ways of killing. The commandment "Thou shalt not kill" is believed, which I agree is in regards to cold blooded murder. Killing in self defense is questionable as Jesus told Peter to put away his sword that whoever takes up the sword would die by the sword (Matthew 26:52). But in the same token Jesus told the disciples to buy a sword (Luke 22:36). Sooooo, I dunno on that one. But, to deliberately kill someone out of anger? That would be sinning during anger. How would that be pure? We are to pray for those who persecute us, not kill them.

Well wait a minute Joe, above you said: "God expects us to follow them, but also gives us Christ Jesus to cover our sins when we don't follow them perfectly. Sort of to fill in where we fail." So is Jesus' help to obey the commandments or to cover up your failures? Your changing Jesus' answer from "OBEY THE COMNMANDMENTS" to "TRY TBEY". Again look at what Jesus said...

Matthew 19:16-17 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life? And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

Notice Joe that our whole duty is not to try to obey the commandments, it is to obey the commandments...

Ecclesiastes 12:13 Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.

...it isn't the man who tries to obey the commandments that will have the right to the tree of life, it is the man who obeys the commandments that will have the right to the tree of life...

Revelation 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

Joe, saying that I couldn't keep the commandments because I mowed the lawn on the sabbath day doesn't prove that it is impossible to obey the commandments. Yes you can unintentionally disobey the commandments, but that doesn't make it excuseable. As I stated above I believe that God will not allow you to die if you are unintentionally disobeying His commandments. I believe that God will give you the opportunity to be obedient, just as He has done with me not keeping the sabbath day holy. And if there are other sins I am doing unintetionally God will bring them to light. Then I will be faced with either repenting and not doing those sins any longer or intentionally continue to sin.

Oh, you won't find a church that believes what the Bible says is true in the yellow pages. Jesus said not everyone who says Lord, Lord will enter the kingdom of God, and "MANY" will enter through the wide gate that leads to destruction. Not surprisingly, many people who profess to be Christian will believe what a preacher says, but not believe what Jesus says. I say not surprising, because of what Jesus said about the "MANY" who says Lord, Lord. People honor Jesus with their lips, but their hearts are from from Him (Matthew 15:7-9).

We were going to a non-denominational church that held our beliefs so we thought, but then an elder told me "I can't see myself going a day without telling a lie." Another elder told me "Well, there is a little wiggle room when it comes to sin." The preacher told me "We are only human, and will sin from time to time." So, we left and decided to worship at home. Can't say we started our own church, because you can't start something that was already started. So far locally I haven't met anybody that believes the Bible the way we do, but I have met a few people online, very few, but they are out there.

Do you keep the sabbath day? Not "A" sabbath day, but "THE" sabbath day?

In the name of Jesus Christ,

Ken