The Contextual definition of Faith in Romans 4:16-23

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by The Biblicist, Jul 27, 2012.

  1. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist
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    16 Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,
    17 ¶ (As it is written, I have made thee a father of many nations,) before him whom he believed, even God, who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those things which be not as though they were.
    18 Who against hope believed in hope, that he might become the father of many nations, according to that which was spoken, So shall thy seed be.
    19 And being not weak in faith, he considered not his own body now dead, when he was about an hundred years old, neither yet the deadness of Sara’s womb:
    20 He staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God;
    21 And being fully persuaded that, what he had promised, he was able also to perform.
    22 And therefore it was imputed to him for righteousness.
    23 ¶ Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it was imputed to him;
    24 But for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;


    Here is Paul's contextual definition of faith as it relates to "justification by faith."

    There are three divisions provided here:

    1. Descriptives of faith - vv. 16-17
    2. Illustrated in a specific example in Abraham's life - vv. 18-21
    3. Direct application to us - vv. 22-23


    A. Descriptives - vv. 16-17

    a. Justification is "of Faith" rather than "of law" (see verse 13-15) that it might be "by grace" in contrast to "of works" (vv. 1-15) just as "grace" is contrasted to "works" in Romans 4:4.

    b. It is "by grace" so that justification will be "SURE TO ALL" the promised seed.

    c. It is "sure" because God promised it and it is based purely upon God's ability - v. 17 as illustrated in a specific example in Abraham's life - vv. 18-21.


    B. Illustrated faith - vv. 18-22

    a. The SUREness of justification by faith to ALL the seed is illustrated in the promise of God for the very first of Abraham's seed - Isaac.

    b. Abraham and Sarah had already attempted to assist, participate in, contribute to making God's promise a realization in their life and FAILED.

    c. God intentionally waited until they could not assist, participate, contribute anything ("dead.....deadness") EXCEPT rest upon God's POWER to perform God's PROMISE - BY FAITH - vv. 18-21.

    Here "faith" is defined as ruling out all personal participation, assistance, contributions by the "ungodly" but rather simply RESTING upon God's power alone and TRUSTING in God's promise alone - v. 21

    C. Application to us - vv. 23-25

    It is this definition of faith that obtained "imputed righteousness" - v. 22 and it is this definition of faith that obtains the promise of the gospel for us - vv. 23-25.
     
    #1 The Biblicist, Jul 27, 2012
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  2. Yeshua1

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    well, that part in Acts about those believing in jesus receiving the remission of sins just killed of both RCC and those saying the elect are saved before faith place in christ!
     
  3. Moriah

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    Paul is explaining how the Gentiles are now included, that they are like Abraham who believed before the law was given. Paul is explaining that the promise is given to the Gentiles who believe and never had the law, and the same promise given to the Jews who believed and have the law.

    This is about God being able to do anything. Even bring the dead Gentiles, those without the law, to life with those who had the law.

    Abraham and Sarah could not have children together, but believed God when God spoke to Abraham about his seed.

    Abraham believed what God said about his seed, even though he and Sarah were both old and Sarah’s body no longer being fertile.

    Paul explains about unwavering faith Abraham had, the kind of faith we should all have.

    Unwavering faith.


    Unwavering faith for those without “the law,” AND for those who had “the law” 16 not to that only which is of the law

    To all who do not have the law, and to those who had the law.

    It is about faith to those who did not have the law, and to those who had the law, it is explaining how the Gentiles can be included, it is about unwavering faith.

    It is NOT about doing nothing; it is about before and after “the law.”

    It is not about being any kind of believing person either, for the scriptures tell us that Abraham obeyed God before the law. God even tested Abraham’s faith.
     
  4. The Biblicist

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    You are simply an ignorant man blathering ignorance! I have no time to fool with your nonsense. It is a waste of time to discuss anything with you because you simply pick and choose what you want from a text and then pervert it into absolute nonsense!
     
  5. Moriah

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    Awww…so rough. I know it is hard to go against God’s truth. When you think you want to try though, I would like to be the one to discuss this more with you.
     
    #5 Moriah, Jul 27, 2012
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  6. Moriah

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    Just the fact that God tested Abraham’s faith when Abraham offered Isaac at the altar, that should show people that we are to do things to be saved, even before the law, even though we now have a new law, the New Testament. God who knows all things knew that Abraham would go through with offering his son, but God still had Abraham go through the steps, even to reaching for the knife.

    We must believe and obey!
     
  7. The Biblicist

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    16 Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,



    A. The Promise to be Heir over this world is SURE to ALL the seed– vv. 13-25

    13 For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith.
    14 For if they which are of the law be heirs, faith is made void, and the promise made of none effect:
    15 Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression.
    16 Therefore IT is of faith,



    The pronoun "it" refers to "the promise" in verse 13 which is about the legal position of "heir" over the world. This was the "promise" given to Abraham by God. This was the original right given to Adam in Genesis 1:26-27 which he lost through sin and which is regained through "faith" in Christ the second Adam.

    This promise is SURE to "ALL" the seed of Abraham which refers to all those identified first in verse 11 or "ALL who are OF FAITH" which is inclusive of Abraham as well as all GENTILES (non-Jews) before Him (Adam and Eve, Abel, Seth, Noah, Shem, Job) and all after him both among the Jews and among the Gentiles.

    1. Sure because it is “of faith that it might be by grace”[/I][/I]

    It is “of faith” because it is obtained through faith in the righteousness of God provided in the Person and work of Jesus Christ (Rom. 3;24-26; 4:23-25). This righteousness is imputed by faith and thus obtained by faith. This is proven because it is (1) the “ungodly” who “worketh not” but “beleiveth” who is justified rather than the “godly” believer who worketh- Rom. 4:4-5. (2) Because it is obtained WITHOUT obedience to divine rites – Rom. 4:9-12; (3) because it is obtained without obedience to the Law of God – Rom. 4:13-15; (4) Because it is obtained without personal participation, assistance or contribution by the believer but wholly by faith in the power of God to obtain the promise of God – Rom. 4:16-21. (5) because it is “of faith” that it might be by grace so to make it SURE to not some but ALL the promised seed – Rom. 4:16.

    The reason it is not "of law" is because the Law only "worketh wrath" because all men have violated the law and are under its penalty or condemnation. The law reveals the knowlege of sin and reveals the righteousness of God (Rom. 3:21). Hence, the law can only produce wrath to sinners:

    15 Because the law worketh wrath: .

    Only by ridding the world of Law can you escape its condemnation and wrath:

    Rom. 4:15.....for where no law is, there is no transgression.


    2. Sure to “ALL” of God’s promised seed because the seed is not confined to one nation

    17 ¶ (As it is written, I have made thee a father of many nations,) before him whom he believed….

    It was made sure to all Gentile believers before Abraham by faith (Abel, Seth, Noah). It was made sure to all Gentile believers living at the time of Abraham (Shem, Job, etc.). It is made sure to all Gentiles and Jews living after the time of Abraham till Jesus comes from heaven.


    3. Sure because it is “of faith” by God’s Power to obtain God’s Promise:

    It is "sure" because God's power is behind God's promise and He will make it sure by his own power:

    17 even God, who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those things which be not as though they were.


    “ALL” the promised seed (“ALL who are of faith”) will obtain God’s promise by God's power without their assistance, participation or contribution. This is wonderfully illustrated in the birth of Isaac. Just as God made sure the promise of the birth of Isaac sure when it was impossible for Abraham and Sarah to physically assist or contribute anything to produce children so is the promise found in the gospel obtained by God’s power alone without any physical assistance or contribution by believers.

    Abraham's only hope after he tried and failed and after his reproduction ability was "dead" and the womb of Sarah was "deadness" is God's power to make it "sure."

    18 Who against hope believed in hope, that he might become the father of many nations, according to that which was spoken, So shall thy seed be.
    19 And being not weak in faith, he considered not his own body now dead, when he was about an hundred years old, neither yet the deadness of Sara’s womb:
    20 He staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God;


    He could offer God no assistance, no participation, no contribution but faith in God's own power to provide what he promised:

    21 And being fully persuaded that, what he had promised, he was able also to perform.
    22 And therefore it was imputed to him for righteousness.


    Here is the true contextual definition of "faith" in the context of justification "by faith." It is the firm conviction that God's power provides God's promise and it is upon that and that alone the promise is made "sure" to "ALL THE SEED."



    B. Application to the promise of the gospel:

    23 ¶ Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it was imputed to him;
    24 But for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead
    ;

    Here is a direct application to the promise found in the gospel obtained by the very same way Abraham obtained his son Isaac. Faith that simply trusts God's power to provide God's promise without any physical assistance or contribution on our part. That means the only possible way the righteousness of God can be obtained is by LEGAL justification or imputation - Period!
     
  8. The Biblicist

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    It is IMPOSSIBLE for you to admit you are wrong and therefore it is IMPOSSIBLE to have any meaningful discussion with you.
     
    #8 The Biblicist, Jul 27, 2012
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  9. Moriah

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    We must believe and obey!

    People who have been ensnared to do the devil’s work, they teach that obedience is not important, they teach you are saved just by believing and nothing else. That is not true. The Bible tells what kind of people God saves. The Bible tells us that God tests our faith.
     
  10. The Biblicist

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    The above post expositorily demonstrates that justifying faith is "by grace" void of all personal obedience to God's commandments but rather it is the "ungodly" not the "godly" believer who is justified and that faith rests solely in the power of God to obtain the promise of God found in the gospel.
     
  11. DHK

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    John 20:31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

    The above verse is both the theme and purpose of the Gospel of John.
    The entire book was written that you might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by only believing you might have life through his name.

    Yes I added the word "only" for clarity and your understanding. That is because there is nothing added to the word believing. It is not believe and obey, believe plus obedience, etc. It is believe and nothing else but believe; or faith alone.

    Salvation is by faith and faith alone. This is the clear and undeniable teaching of the Word of God.
     
  12. Moriah

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    You admit you added the word ‘only.’ All the scriptures that speak only of repenting and do NOT speak of believing, those scriptures do not nullify the fact that we have to believe. Likewise, all the scriptures that tell us to believe, they do not nullify the scriptures that tell us also to repent.
     
  13. Moriah

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    The only time faith ‘only’ is mentioned in the Bible, it is to tell us what kind of faith NOT to have, and that it is useless, it is dead, see James chapter 2.
    God tests our faith. Since God tests our faith, that should show you that saying only believe is misleading in the least.
     
  14. DHK

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    Romans 5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:
     
  15. Moriah

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    and, once made perfect, he became the source of eternal salvation for all who obey him Hebrews 5:9.

    As I have been saying, the scriptures that mention faith and believe, they do not nullify the scriptures that mention to believe and repent, nor do they nullify the scriptures that say to repent and obey but do not mention believe and faith.
    Do not neglect or twist scriptures that do not fit into your doctrines.
     
  16. The Biblicist

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    Rom. 4:19 And being not weak in faith, he considered not his own body now dead, when he was about an hundred years old, neither yet the deadness of Sara’s womb:
    20 He staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God;



    Those who would define "faith" to be "faithfulness" or "obedience to God's Commands" take note that Abraham was "not weak in faith" but "strong in faith" and yet completely without ability to particpate or contribute any physical actions to assist God in obtaining this promise of God.

    His abilities are described as "dead" and hers as "deadness." Hence, "strong in faith" had nothing to do with ANY KIND OF ABILITY in obtaining this promise. Thus "faith" is a STATE OF MIND/HEART here rather than ACTIVITY or ACTIONS of obedience.

    Compare this with their ACTIVITY in producing Ishmael?


    21 And being fully persuaded that, what he had promised, he was able also to perform.
    22 And therefore it was imputed to him for righteousness
    .

    Paul defines the "faith" that obtains the promise of God to be something INTERNAL and a STATE of mind and heart rather than anykind of EXTERNAL ACTIONS or ACTS OF OBEDIENCE.

    Paul defines the "faith" that obtains the promise of God the conviction that the promise of God will be obtained by the power of God alone. This is the kind of faith that "was imputed to him for righteousness."

    This means that justifying faith is an INTERNAL ATTITUDE OF OBEDIENCE that submits to the promise of the Gospel relying wholly upon the power of God to obtain that promise without any external actions that attempt to participate or contribute or assist God in obtaining that promise - that is "obedience to the gospel."

    The reason justifying faith RULES OUT any and all kinds of human participation, assistance, contributions in obtaining the promise of the gospel is very simple! God by his own power has provided the righteousness through the Person and works of Jesus Christ that fully satifies all the obedience required by the Law of God and to accept it as finished IS OBEDIENCE to the Gospel while to ATTEMPT TO ADD YOUR OWN OBEDIENCE to obtaining eternal life is REJECTION of Christ, rejection of the gospel and DISOBEDIENCE to the Gospel as in the case of those in Matthew 7:22-23:

    Mt. 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not......done many wonderful works?
    23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

    Hence "obedience" to the Gospel is to believe that God provides the promise of the gospel by His power alone through the finished work of Jesus Christ.

    This requires "repentance of dead works" or those ACTIONS which YOU would participate with God, assist God, contribute to obtain what God has already finished in Christ as those kind of ACTIONS are in reality DISOBEDIENCE to the gospel.

    This requires "faith" which RECEIVES and RESTS upon the finished work of Christ as the only hope of your salvation.

    Those who "repent and believe" after this manner profess THIS KIND OF HOPE BASED UPON THIS KIND OF SALVATION and are regenerated unto "good works" or a life of obedience to the commandments of God which obedience is again DEPENDENCE upon the Holy Spirit to "work in you both to will and to do of His good pleasure" as the only kind of obedience God will accept from you is the kind that is produced by the Holy Spirit from a regenerated heart.


    Thus one must first TRUST in Jesus BEFORE one can SERVE Jesus. We do not SERVE to be SAVED but we are SAVED in order to SERVE. We do not SERVE in order to obtain heaven but in order to glorify God. Entrance into heaven is obtained by the SERVICE OF CHRIST in our behalf because we cannot provide the kind of service to obtain heaven that is demanded by the Law of God - sinless service!
     
    #16 The Biblicist, Jul 28, 2012
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  17. The Biblicist

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    Rom. 4:19 And being not weak in faith, he considered not his own body now dead, when he was about an hundred years old, neither yet the deadness of Sara’s womb:
    20 He staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God;


    Consider the nature of the promise given them by God. They will have a son.

    Consider their former attempt to assist, participate with and contribute to obtaining that promise by the handmade and birth of Ishmael. That was considered disobedience to God rather than "faith" in God.

    Consider that God intentionally waited until it was PHYSICALLY IMPOSSIBLE for either Abraham or Sarah to assist, participate with or contribute to the birth of Isaac. He waited until they WERE NOT ABLE TO PERFORM but only when "HE WAS ABLE TO PERFORM" (v. 21).

    Consider the descriptions of their PHYSICAL ABILITY as being "now dead" and the "deadness" of her womb.

    Hence, this PHYSICAL BIRTH of Isaac, which was the promise of God, they could in no manner aide, assist, participate or contribute to by ANY KIND OF THEIR ACTIONS!

    Thus being "strong in faith" in regard to obtaining this promise cannot possibly be interpreted to mean "faithfulness through ACTIONS OF OBEDIENCE"!

    It can only be interpreted by CONFIDENCE that wholly RESTS in the power of God to completely provide the PROMISE of God FOR THEM without their assistance whatsoever! Or as Paul describes it:

    Rom. 4:21 And being fully persuaded that, what he had promised, he was able also to perform.


    Therefore justifying faith is not "WE ARE ABLE" but confidence that "HE WAS ABLE to perform"
     
    #17 The Biblicist, Jul 28, 2012
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  18. The Biblicist

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    Ro 10:16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?

    To obey the gospel simply means to YEILD to and REST wholy upon the finished work by Jesus Christ as your ONLY HOPE to obtain eternal life!

    That is impossible unless you first acknolwedge you are a sinner and all your works are sinful and worthless in any attempt to assist, participate, or contribute in obtaining the promise of eternal life. That frame of mind is what the Bible calls "repentance from dead works" or gospel repentance.

    Those who refuse to repent are those who will not acknowledge that Christ finished all obedience required for eternal life and who attempt to satisfy that requirement by their own obedience to God - thus rejecting Jesus Christ and his finished work.


    Justifying faith never asks:

    Rom. 10:6 But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down from above:)
    7 Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ again from the dead.)


    Here Paul summarizes the whole life of Christ from his coming down from heaven unto his resurrection from the grave. Justifying faith is a HEART CONDITION that never asks HOW CAN I HELP/ASSIST/CONTRIBUTE/PARTICIPATE with Christ in accomplishing his redemptive mission for our salvation. But rather justifying faith is the HEART CONDITION that simply RECEIVES and RESTS upon the good news of the FINISHED work of Jesus Christ as the only Hope of eternal life and CONFESSES that as its ONLY HOPE of salvation. Saving faith never acts outside THE HEART wherein the gospel is planted:

    8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
    9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
    10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
    11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed
    .

    One shall NEVER be "ashamed" of this hope because Christ did not fail in HIS OBEDIENCE/SATIFACTION of the Law of God in our behalf whereas all who reject that Christ is the END of obedience to the Law of God will be "ashamed" because all their works "COME SHORT OF THE GLORY OF GOD."
     
    #18 The Biblicist, Jul 28, 2012
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  19. The Biblicist

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    Gospel repentance is TURNING FROM YOUR OWN WORKS in order to satisfy God's demands for eternal life and simply TRUSTING - RESTING in the finished works of Jesus Christ as your ONLY hope for eternal life.

    That requires acknowledgement that you are a sinner, condemned under the Law of God (Rom. 3:19-23) and all your works "come short of the glory of God" and thus feel your need of a Savior and receive the good news of the Gospel, and rest upon the good news of the gospel as YOUR ONLY HOPE of salvation. This is obedience to the Gospel! Refusing to acknowledge you are sinful and all your works come short of the glory of God is disobedience to the gospel. Attempting to contribute, assist, participate by YOUR WORKS in obtaining eteral life is repudiation of the FINISHED work of Christ and repudiation of the SUFFICIENCY of his satisfaction of ALL GOD's RIGHTEOUS demands against you.

    Once, SAVED, then living for Christ is living in DEPENDENCE upon the power of the indwelling Spirit of God to serve God through obedience to his commandments NOT TO OBTAIN eternal life but to GLORIFY GOD by your life and experience the blessing of salvation here and now and eternal rewards to come. We serve out of LOVE not out of fear that we will lose what we never could obtain by our works.

    The true people of God are those who OBEY the gospel in this manner and SERVE God in this manner and all other are unbelievers and self-righteous religious hypocrits.
     
    #19 The Biblicist, Jul 28, 2012
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  20. Yeshua1

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    When were you saved by god, what did you do to get saved by god?
     

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