The Controversy of Christian Lyric

Joshua,

I like his music and his message a lot. There are a lot of websites dedicated to him.

For those who don't know, he was a youth pastor (I don't know if he still is) who combined the exhortation of a Keith Green with the poignancy and acerbic wit of an Elvis Costello.

His shows were filled with wild stage antics and he would often play different roles from old lady spinster school teacher ("Class, can anyone say 'situational ethics'?") to a psychotic Good Humor ice cream man (from the song, "I Blew up the Clinic Real Good") to, my favorite, an Adam Ant meets Gilbert and Sullivan British naval officer.

His stage shows were something to behold. Then, he retired and when he came back, it just wasn't the same.

The songs above are taken from "I Want to Be a Clone" and "I Predict 1990" and are generally considered to be his biggest songs (in addition to "Jim Morrison's Grave", later changed to "Kurt Cobain's Grave").

Out of print but well worth the effort to find.

 

Mike McK and others,

You mentioned exhorting one another...THAT IS WHAT WE ARE TO BE DOING...You are right,but maybe exhorting is something we need to do a little better than just singing song about the sin and difficulties of our flesh...I think there is enough focus on man and our shortcomings...let's be exhorted based on Christ's perfect life...how He handled mockings,and such...let us see our sin's and His forgiveness...let us see our weakness and His strength...in BIBLICAL concepts and Truths,not man's stories.

Exhortation should look like this:

Christ died for us while we were His enemies...He dies for us while we were helpless...while we were sinners. He was reviled,but did not revile in return....He has given us eternal life through Christ Jesus our Lord...we can walk as children of God...when we confess our sins He is faithful to forgive our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness....


Now,there is some biblical exhorting! Almost all the songs that have been listed here with controversial wordings have been so depressing...not at all revelaing the Truth of the gospel,the GOOD NEWS! We need to be exhorting,challenging,rebuking our brothers and sisters in Christ through biblical means,by allowing God's Word to be the source of what we say and do.


We need men who know God's Word and who can biblically counsel others to understand God's word and His will...we sure do not to think these songs provide that! The sad thing is many younger weaker christians may lean on these kinds of things...never being hungry for the meat of God's Word,which is what they really need to be exposed to.

Just my thoughts....

Molly

 

Using stories to illustrate a point is as old as time. Every preacher does it, even, God forbid, yours. Even Jesus did it. Even Paul did it.

That's a good example of exhortation but it's not the only one. You didn't call these people, God did. Let them do the work they've been called to do as they feel they were called to do it. Who are you to judge another's servant?

Depressing to you, uplifting to others.

So then, we shouldn't preach those parts of scripture that don't deal specifically with the Gospel?

But all of the songs listed are Biblically based or, at least, Biblically supportable.

No, you don't think those songs provide that because they don't fit to your narrow view.

There's no "we" to it. I and others, evidently, think they're quite uplifting and edifying.

Then I guess it's a good thing that these songs and these artists point to God's word.

 

Mike,

All I can say in response to your post is...you are good at arguing! You have taken everything I have said and argued it in order to support a view that everything is okay. I happen to disagree.

I do not think we should only preach the gospel...we prefer expository preaching(the whole counsel of God for every passage that is taught). The gospel is in there more that you think,though!

But,I do believe that believers should have a high view of God and these songs,yes,IMO,do not support a high view of God.

Sorry to disagree,but happy to discuss it with you!

I do not have all the answers nor do I pretend to,but after studying these kinds of church related issues and having been under very wise teaching and counsel,this is where we(my husband and I) are. I'm not wanting to put down your views to make you feel less of a christian at all...that is not my point,in fact we shared similar views a few years ago....I'm desiring for believers to step up to the plate when it comes to holy living. This would include all areas of life...I'v seen some real problems come from an attitude that shows a lack of reverence toward a Holy God...a fear of the Lord...My life was lacking in this area a few years ago,mainly because I had been a member of a typical SBC all my life and had not been exposed to sound doctrine...I have been very convicted about my own attitude in these areas and have so desired to be glorifying to God in all areas of my life...He has a big job to do in me,but His grace is sufficient.

Molly

 

Joshua,the things these songs are saying sound good coming from your interpretation..why doesn't the song say it as clearly as you do?



Molly

 

I did? Funny, I don't hold that view.

[qb]

In your opinion. I find this especially ironic since two of the Steve Taylor songs I posted point the finger at Christians who do not hold a high view of God.

But you disagree when a Steve Taylor song or a Keith Green song expresses the same desire? That doesn't make any sense.

May I ask what area of our doctrine isn't Biblically sound?

 

For the same reason that the parables of Jesus are not perfectly clear to a casual listener...

The songs capture your imagination and get you to consider these timeless truths in a fresh way.

 

Sounds like Carl Story's song, "You don't love God"

There are many people who will say they're Christians

And they live like Christians on the Sabbath day

But from Monday morning to the coming Sunday

They will fight their neighbor all along the way

Chorus

Oh, you don't love God

If you don't love your neighbor

If you gossip about him

If you never have mercy

If he gets into trouble and you don't try to help
him

Then you don't love your neighbor and you don't love God

Verse two

In the Holy Bible

In the book of Matthew

Read the eighteenth chapter and the twenty first verse

Jesus plainly tells us that we must have mercy

There's a special warning in the thirty fifth verse

Repeat chorus

Verse three

There's a God, Almighty and you've got to love Him

If you want salvaton and a home on high

If you say you love him while you hate your neighbor

Then you don't have religion

You just told a lie

Repeat chorus

 

Mike,
Please forgive my generalized statement about sbc churches! I think there are some good sbc churches out there....our church doctrinally lines up with sbc doctrine(mostly),but in a more calvinistic arena of teaching....things I was never taught,although,I believed and had studied election,it was never taught directly from a sbc pulpit...That is what I mean by doctrine...the teaching...not the doctrinal statements....I agree with most sbc doctrinal statements...it is the lack of teaching in some sbc churches that I have been under in my life that have raised a red flag to us....I'm sorry if I offended you. Please accept my apologies on that one! I realize there are some really good sbc churches out there...just not where we live. Your's may be outstanding in the area of expository teaching,biblical apologetics,and biblical counseling. There is defintely a great need for these kinds of churches. I pray yours is a strong one.

Anyway,

I see your point about the songs pointing to God,but I guess it is the choice of lyrics that seem to be strange and abstract in thought..the intent of the writer seems unclear and therefore leaves me wondering what it was all about. I don't have a problem with the writers,in general,they may be very good writers and theologically sound...I have no idea...we are simply discussing the lyrics and I see some questionable stuff there...

Friends,

Molly

 

For the same reason that the parables of Jesus are not perfectly clear to a casual listener...

The songs capture your imagination and get you to consider these timeless truths in a fresh way. </font>[/QUOTE]My point exactly...this may be the big difference....


I believe God's Word is fresh and perfect the way it is...I don't think a writer of a song can add to or make Truth any better than it already is....OUCH!

Molly

 

OK.

To you but there are millions of us who do get it.

What?!?

Which one of the songs above have ambiguous lyrics?

OK, then, what is questionable about them?

So then, when your pastor gives a sermon illustration, do you make the same complaint?

Which of the writers above have tried to?

 

For example,this song....

Who is is talking? The women,the devil? The entire lyrics are weird sounding...and I am really a pretty bright person....I do not understand this song....

 

Whose faith is a lie?

 

Is that your nicey nicey way of calling me a liar. Thanks.

Stop whinging, I haven't berated anyone up to now. I thought you Americans believed in freedom of speech or am I only free to speak if I don't disagree with you.

FYI here's one verse I do agree with...

Anything I put before my God is an idol.
Anything I want with all my heart is an idol.
Anything I can’t stop thinking of is an idol.
Anything that I give all my love is an idol.
We must not worship something that ain’t even worth it.
Clear the stage, make some space for the One who deserves it.

Originally posted by Joshua Rhodes

Every time you step up onto a stage with your guitar hanging round your neck you are distracting the saints from the One who is worthy. You are attempting to steal His glory, it is shameful that pulpits have been torn down and stages built to replace them.

Get off the stage entertainer, then pull down the stage and put the pulpit back up. Step aside and allow the one who IS called to preach to deliver his sermon without distraction.

The arogance of you musicians is astonishing. So you can play music, SO WHAT, don't fool yourself into thinking you are called to a ministry. In my opinion you are on an ego trip, the sooner you realise that the better.

 

I just don't get it....

It is a little bit of scripture all mixed up in a confusing story...that leaves me thinking...what is that about?

I'm glad you get it...I don't. Please explain.

The dumb one,
Molly

 

In the second verse, the narrator is speaking the part of the Devil, who I don't believe is really the devil, but a representative of the battle of the flesh.

In all other verses, it's the narrator.

There's no hidden spiritual meaning to it. He's simply relating a story and warning the listener not to fall put himself into a similiar situation, lest he find himself in a compromising situation.

As I understand it, the narrator of the song is lamenting the situation he's put himself in and wondering what this says about his faith and whether or not he values his faith more or a physical experience more.