The Creative Word of Command

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by The Biblicist, Jan 5, 2015.

  1. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist
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    Our spiritual position "in Christ" is never attributed to an act of the human will but to the creative act of the Divine Will:

    "For we are His workmanship CREATED in Christ Jesus unto....." - Eph. 2:10

    "But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:" 1 Cor. 1:30

    This creative work of God is based on the analogy of Genesis 1:2-3 where the Spirit moved upon the waters of the deep in pitch black darkness, and God said, "Let there be light, and there was light"

    For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ. - 2 Cor. 4:6

    2 Corinthians 4:6 is in the context of coming out from under the power of the Devil as a lost unregenerated person (2 Cor. 4:2-4) through the preaching of the gospel (2 Cor. 4:5-7). However, the power is not attributed to either the preacher or the gospel itself but to God who makes the gospel His word of command to effectually call light out of darkness "in the heart" of the lost.

    But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us. - 2 Cor. 4:7

    Previously Paul drew from the analogy of inspiration of the scriptures to demnstrate the same direct power of God being infused into the gospel as it is preached to the elect:

    Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart.
    4 And such trust have we through Christ to God-ward:
    5 Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God;
    6 ¶ Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life
    .

    The analogy is drawn from inspiration of the scriptures. The writing of scriptures is so direct from God that it is though there is no human instrument being used. The Greek term translated "inspired" means "God breathed" and implies that the writing of scripture is as though it was breathed out directly from God right on to the writing materials.

    Romans 11:17 uses the Greek word "rhema" instead of the usual term "logos" translated "word". Rhema, was a term that was used to convey a word of command. When God gives a new heart it is a believing heart, or a heart that perceives, sees and hears as that is its condition when given:

    O that there were such an heart in them, that they would fear me, and keep all my commandments always, that it might be well with them, and with their children for ever! - Deut. 5:29

    Yet the LORD hath not given you an heart to perceive, and eyes to see, and ears to hear, unto this day. - Deut. 29:4

    God gives this new heart when he empowers the gospel as His creative word, thus writing the law upon the heart or a heart that is in submission to the will of God:

    For our gospel came not unto you in word only, but also in power, and in the Holy Ghost, and in much assurance; as ye know what manner of men we were among you for your sake. - 1 Thes. 1:5

    In other words, the gospel came with TRANSFORMATIONAL power that transformed the receives into the same "manner of men" like unto those who delivered the gospel to them.

    No one can deny that the gospel is made the creative word of God in producing the new birth:

    Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.
    24 ¶ For all flesh is as grass, and all the glory of man as the flower of grass. The grass withereth, and the flower thereof falleth away: {For: or, For that}
    25 But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you.


    Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures. - James 1:18

    Finally, this new birth PRECEDES both the ability to "SEE" or "ENTER" the kingdom OF HEAVEN - Jn. 3:3,5, rather than the reverse order given by Arminians. Deut. 29:4 also demands the heart must first be given BEFORE one can perceive, see or hear God. However, Arminians deny that and teach the very reverse. They teach that one must first perceive, hear and see BEFORE they are given a new heart.

    It is this WORD OF COMMAND that creates "the light of knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ" IN THE HEART - 2 Cor. 4:6. It is this metaphorical "light of knowledge" that is both the substance and hope of saving faith. That light is spoken into existence within a DARKENED heart by divine fiat reversing the following description of the unregenerated condition:

    Having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart: - Eph. 4:18

    There is no such thing as a unregenerated believer any more than there is any such thing as a regenerated unbeliever. Both my hardshell and Arminian friends on the forum will deny all of the above but reader just study carefully the scriptures presented. They are irrefutable. Regeneration/new birth/quickening is accomplished by God empowering the gospel as His creative word that brings such a new believing heart into existence, thus providing the ability to perceive, ears to hear and eyes to see spiritual things and it is with that heart Paul says "with the heart profession is made unto salvation" - not with the unregenerate ignorant, blind and resistant heart. Just as Jesus says the new birth must PRECEDE the ability to "see" or "enter" the kingdom OF HEAVEN - Jn. 3:3,5.
     
    #1 The Biblicist, Jan 5, 2015
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  2. kyredneck

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    Tell me how the 'births' and 'begats' above are the same as 'born from above' in Jn 3. Not even the same words in the Greek.

    ...but there are non-regenerate professors, right?

    ...but there are regenerate non-professors, right? We were all in that condition once, right?
     
    #2 kyredneck, Jan 5, 2015
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  3. The Biblicist

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    All three words are synonyms. In Jn 3:3 and 1 Pet 1:23 it is the same word with the exception of the preposition of "ana" which simply means "again". The term in James is a synonym meaning to come forth from the womb.

    You are missing the point of the context of my statement. I am not referring to false believers but to the process of saving a true believer. In that process there is no such thing as a regenerated unbeliever or a unregenerated believer - meaning regeneration and conversion are chronologically a simeltaneous event. (although there is a logical order where life precedes action of life).
     
  4. kyredneck

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    I believe the writers are addressing the congregation as a whole and the terms are synonymous with the 'building again' of Acts 15:16 and other passages, not the spiritual birth of Jn 3:8.

    That's odd; somewhere along the way I've thought you held otherwise.

    Question: How are those in Jn 3:21 'doing the truth/works' PRIOR to 'coming to the light' if regeneration and conversion are synonymous? The passage indicates God has already wrought within them, as in Jn 1:12-13, those 'receiving Him' were already 'born of God'.

    This seems contradictory to what you stated above.
     
    #4 kyredneck, Jan 5, 2015
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  5. Yeshua1

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    All of us as sinners were apart from God, and were reconciled back to Him the "hour we first believed", and do not see the scriptures teaching that we are eternally reconciled by Death of Jesus before we received him thru faith, nor that we can be regenerated and still not have faith in him for a long period of time!
     
  6. The Biblicist

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    Yes, but the congregation as a whole had to profess a salvation experience n order to be part of that congregation. In context, he is referring to the "engrafted" word at new birth. The Greek term does mean coming forth from the womb and I believe it is a synonym of the other terms in question.


    The participles "doeth" and "cometh" are present tense and in relationship to the Aorist tense verse they denote identical action with the verb ("made manifest"). Hence doing and coming describe the act of conversion. The words "hath wrought" represent a periphrastic construct that entails or is inclusive of all the actions of the previous two participles and verb, thus it is adverbial in its role in the sentence. It provides the cause whereas the previous verb and its two participles describe the effect. So I don't understand it in a chronological order but in an inclusive cause and effect order. Hence, the periphrastic construct involves the previous two participles and the verbal actions (simeltaneous events) as one perfected action in the past that continues (present tense state of action verb) in a perfect completed state right to the point of speaking.




    In verse 12 All three verbs are Aorist tense ("received" "gave" "become") in verse 12 are aorist tense verbs showing identical actions. The term "beleive" is a present tense participle. The relationship of the participle to the verb would show identical action. If the participle had been a completed action verb it would have demanded the Arminian position that faith preceded the action of the verbs, if it had been future tense it would have demanded faith occurred after the action of the verbs. However, the present tense participle demands identical action with the verbs. The only order here is one of cause versus effect which is reinforced in verse 13 which is further descriptive of the action of the Aorist tense verbs in verse 12.







    No, the difference is LOGICAL order rather than CHRONOLOGICAL order, so no contradiction at all.
     
    #6 The Biblicist, Jan 7, 2015
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  7. The Biblicist

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    I don't really understand what you are trying to say. There is our objective justification actually obtained by Christ (Heb. 9:12). Yet our subjective justification is not obtained until the "hour we first believed." Faith is created by God at the moment he creates the new heart as it is a believing heart that is created and it is "with" that heart a professing is made (Rom. 10:8-10). It is created by His Word of command (Rom. 10:17 rhema), which is the empowering of the gospel within the heart of man (2 Cor. 4:6).
     
  8. kyredneck

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    But you DO believe that ‘regeneration is causual to faith’, right?

    As far as logic goes, Total Depravity itself demands that regeneration precede faith.

    As far as chronological goes, what was Abraham’s status prior to Gen 15:6?

    There’s a lot I'm thinking about here and my intent is to return to this but I have to go check up on Dad.
     
  9. The Biblicist

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    Right!

    Right!

    The covenant was already "with thee" (v. 4) from the very moment he effectually called Abram out of Ur of the chaldees (Gal. 3:6-8). Both Genesis 15:6-7 and Genesis 12:1 use the perfect tense and both are simply repetitions of that promise received by faith in Genesis 11 while still in Ur.

    Hope all is well with your dad
     
  10. kyredneck

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    ??????

    [​IMG]

    You and Sproul go to the same Church? :)

    I'm still confused, I still think you're being contradictive, or at the least way over complicated.
     
  11. The Biblicist

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    2 Corinthiasn 4:6 is drawn from Genesis 1:2-3. The analogy with the creation of literal light, effectually calling it out of darkness by mere word of command is the backdrop. However, it is the metaphorical light of "knowledge" that God effectually calls out of the metaphorical darkness in the human heart. This metaphorical "light" is the substance and hope declared in the gospel concerning "the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ." This is the creation of justifying faith or the creation of a believing heart. This is precisely what Jesus attributed the confession of faith by Peter in Matthew 16:16 to - the revelation of God (Mt. 16:17). This is exactly what Paul attributed the new birth to in Galatians 1;15-16. This is exactly what Paul describes in 1 Thessalonians 1:4-5 as the empowered word and what it inwardly produces. This is exactly what Peter is claiming in 1 Pet. 1:23,25. This is exactly what James is saying in James 1:18 concerning the "engrafted" word that saves the soul. This is exactly what reverses the metaphorical descriptions of the unregenerated heart in Ephesians 4:18. This is exactly the enabled/empowered ministry of the gospel in 2 Cor. 3:3-6 whereby the heart is changed by handwriting on the heart that "giveth life."

    Just as repentance and faith are inseparable from each other so is regeneration and conversion. Regeneration is completed in conversion and they are inseparable in a cause and effect relationship as is repentance and faith.

    This is exactly why the KJV translators use the present tense "is" in 1 Jn. 5:1 as the present tense participle shows identical action with the perfect tense verb. God turns us but one cannot be turned by God without turning. Regeneration is the act of turning the heart of man unto God and away from the love of sin. One cannot be turned without turning. Saving faith is the work of God (Jn. 6:29) but it cannot be created by God without it existing simeltaneous with the creative act. It is the whole phrase "by grace are ye saved through faith" that is the gift of God and "his workmanship CREATED in Christ Jesus." This metaphorical "light" of knowledge in 2 Cor. 4:6 is drawn from Genesis 1:2-3 an act of CREATION.

    In the mouth of men the gospel is simply a call to come to Christ. However, in the mouth of God, it is an effectual call that translates us out of metaphorical darkness into metaphorical light changing the heart, and it is with this heart confession to salvation is made. God does not create another heart without beleif or an unbelieving heart because we already got one of those from our first birth. The heart he gives is a perceiving, seeing, hearing heart (Deut. 29:4) and there is no such thing if it is not perceiving, seeing and hearing something when created - it is that revelation of "the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ" which is instantly called into existence that it perceives, sees and hears and embraces.
     
    #11 The Biblicist, Jan 8, 2015
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  12. kyredneck

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    Take heed to thyself, and to thy teaching. Continue in these things; for in doing this thou shalt save both thyself and them that hear thee. 1 Tim 4:16

    So when do you think Timothy and his flock finally got 'regenerated'?
     
    #12 kyredneck, Jan 8, 2015
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  13. The Biblicist

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    I really don't see what this text has to do with our discussion??? Regeneration is always expressed in the past tense "saved" never in the present or future tense. Do you think the term "save" only refers to one aspect of salvation?
     
  14. kyredneck

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    If you're gomming the word 'saved' up to mean regenerated, it has EVERYTHING to do with the discussion. One must first be regenerate before one can be saved.

    Wrong. 'Sozo' in 1 Tim 4:16 is presenting a temporal salvation that is 'ongoing and not over':

    take heed to thyself, and to the teaching; remain in them, for this thing doing, both thyself thou shalt save, and those hearing thee. 1 Tim 4:16YLT

    Just as in 1 Cor 1:18, it is a temporal salvation that is 'ongoing and not over':

    for the word of the cross to those indeed perishing is foolishness, and to us -- those being saved -- it is the power of God, 1 Cor 1:18 YLT

    Just as in Phil 2:12,13, it is a temporal salvation that is 'ongoing and not over':

    So then, my beloved, even as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling; for it is God who worketh in you both to will and to work, for his good pleasure. Phil 2:12,13

    It's NEVER used in reference to the birth from above. It's almost always used in the temporal sense and not the eternal.
     
  15. The Biblicist

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    The term "saved" is used for the act of quickening as "saved" in Ephesians 2:5 is the parenthetical explanation of being quickened. It is again used in Ephesians 2:8a and explained to be the creative work of God in verse 10. In each case it is used in the perfect tense (vv. 5,8) as a completed state that continues as a completed state.
     
  16. kyredneck

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    18 Of his own will he brought us forth by the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.
    19 Ye know this, my beloved brethren. But let every man be swift to hear, slow to speak, slow to wrath:
    20 for the wrath of man worketh not the righteousness of God.
    21 Wherefore putting away all filthiness and overflowing of wickedness, receive with meekness the implanted word, which is able to save your souls.
    22 But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deluding your own selves. Ja 1

    13 for not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified:
    14 (for when Gentiles that have not the law do by nature the things of the law, these, not having the law, are the law unto themselves;
    15 in that they show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness therewith, and their thoughts one with another accusing or else excusing them); Ro 2

    Would you agree these two terms, 'the implanted word' and 'the law written in their hearts', are synonymous?
     
  17. The Biblicist

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    I believe the act of writing the law on the heart (2 Cor. 3:3) is the act of regeneration or the act of giving life (2 Cor. 3:6) according to the new covenant. I believe it is the effectual call that comes not merely in "word only" by the human instrument (2 Cor. 3:3-6) but "also" or in addition to that, it is accompanied by the effectual voice of God within that actually is the creative word (2 Cor. 4:6) that makes the gospel come "in power, and in the Holy Ghost, and in much assurance" to that it transforms a person into the same "manner of men" who proclaimed the gospel to them (1 Thes. 1:5) so they "became followers of" them (1 Thes. 1:6). It is the creative word of command (2 Cor. 4:6a) that produces faith (Rom. 10:17 rhema).
     
  18. kyredneck

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    Would you agree these two terms, 'the implanted word' (Jas 1) and 'the law written in their hearts' (Ro 2), are synonymous?
     
  19. The Biblicist

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    It would seem that would be the case, since no human being can "implant" the word in our hearts.
     
  20. kyredneck

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    14 (for when Gentiles that have not the law do by nature the things of the law
    15 ...they show the work of the law written in their hearts
    29 but he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

    ...leading up to the question:

    1 What advantage then hath the Jew? or what is the profit of circumcision? Ro 3

    Do you think the circumcision of heart/law written in heart apply to all children of promise in all ages and all places?
     

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