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The Cross - Holy or Unholy symbol

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by gtbuzzarp, May 17, 2006.

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  1. gtbuzzarp

    gtbuzzarp New Member

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    In a thread about whether or not the Triquetra should be used by Christians it was mentioned that the cross was used by pagans before Christianity embraced it and before Christ was crucified.

    Some of the basic points of the argument against the Triquetra were:
    - its use by pagans predates use by Christians
    - it is still used by pagans today

    It was suggested that those same arguments could be made against using the cross as a Christian symbol.

    If so, do you support the use of the cross by Christians?
     
    #1 gtbuzzarp, May 17, 2006
  2. donnA

    donnA Active Member

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    While I agree that same argument sould be made. I still say the symbol means what you allow it to mean. There is no power in a symbol itself, but in the belief you put behind that symbol.
     
    #2 donnA, May 17, 2006
  3. genesis12

    genesis12 Member

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    Yes, I support the use of THE Cross, the CHRISTIAN Cross that we all know and love, by Christians.

    We've worn out the arguments that Easter and Christmas were pagan holidays. Suffice it to say that they WERE , not are. The Glory of God has replaced each with the wonder of the Son.
     
    #3 genesis12, May 18, 2006
  4. gtbuzzarp

    gtbuzzarp New Member

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    I agree donnA and genesis12.

    Interesting that the Triquetra naysayers have remained quiet on this thread though, (and continue to duke it out on the other) while it seems that their condemnation of its use would also condemn the use of the Cross.

    I was hoping to get their perspective and understand how one could condone one and not the other (albeit the Triquetra has no where near the widespread use as the Cross does.)
     
    #4 gtbuzzarp, May 18, 2006
  5. mcdirector

    mcdirector Active Member

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    The cross may have been a pagan symbol, but when my Lord and Savior died on one, it became a symbol of the ultimate sacrifice for me.

    Don't we still do this though (at least to some extent)? Words have different meanings to different people. Love to me means the sacrificial love of God or that my husband loves me like Christ loved the church or that I am able to love the unloveable because of Christ. To some, love means sex.

    I haven't read the other thread, so I guess I need to. I think we can get bogged down in stuff like this though and forget that our neighbors are lost.
     
    #5 mcdirector, May 18, 2006
  6. mima

    mima New Member

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    I except the understanding of the cross, death by crucifixion, our Savior's dying on the cross and the price he paid for us by his death on the cross. But I do not accept the wearing of the cross around the neck. I do not accept using the cross symbolically, in fact, I think giving special place in the cross is a violation of the commandment, do not make graven images. Once I saw a person saved in China. Immediately thereafter the person asked me what should I do now go buy a cross? Of course the person was from a atheistic background, but nevertheless the question indicates how symbolism fogs the mind.
     
    #6 mima, May 18, 2006
  7. Jimmy C

    Jimmy C New Member

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    If I am not mistaken, the fish was the main symbol of Christianity until constantine had his vision and used it in battle.

    But, from my perspective, it is just a symbol
     
    #7 Jimmy C, May 18, 2006
  8. mcdirector

    mcdirector Active Member

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    I don't believe I've got a single cross in my entire jewelry box (ok, so it's not such a big jewelry box!). BUT it doesn't bother me if someone wants to wear one. If the person wearing a cross has a misunderstanding of symbols, then I'll pray for and depend on the Holy Spirit to convict them of their misunderstanding.
     
    #8 mcdirector, May 18, 2006
  9. standingfirminChrist

    standingfirminChrist New Member

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    The reason we do not condone the Triqueta was stated so good by Diggin in da Word.

    We can find the cross in the Bible. We cannot find the Triqueta there.

    Acts 17:29 shows us 'Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device.'

    We are also told not to make graven images. Is not the Triqueta a graven image?

    The cross? I have no cross in my home, nor in my church. I preach the message of the cross, but I do not worship the cross.
     
    #9 standingfirminChrist, May 18, 2006
  10. gtbuzzarp

    gtbuzzarp New Member

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    We cannot find the term "Trinity" in the Bible either, but yet we use the term to represent the Godhead.

    But the cross isn't a graven image?

    If the Trichetra is a graven image, then so is the word TRINITY (and the word Trichetra).

    If the Trichetra is a graven image, then so is an image of the cross. And so is the word CROSS.

    What are written words except the assemblance of a set of symbols that change their meaning when arranged in various orders and of various quanties?

    Words are groups of symbols whose meanings are dependent upon the context in which they are used.

    If I am reading Wiccan literature and I see a picture of the Trichetra, I will assume it means one thing. If I have a NKJV and I see the Trichetra I will assume it means something else.

    If I am doing Mathematics and I see a cross, I will assume it means I need to perform addition.

    If I see that same symbol but as white on a red background (Swiss flag) or red on a white background (the Red Cross) I assume a different meaning.

    That same symbol also is important in Wicca as well.

    Btw, so is the circle! Oh no, my geometry teacher was a pagan!!!! :D

    Better toss out your Bible because it is full of graven images.
     
    #10 gtbuzzarp, May 18, 2006
  11. standingfirminChrist

    standingfirminChrist New Member

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    What a bunch of malarky.
     
    #11 standingfirminChrist, May 18, 2006
  12. standingfirminChrist

    standingfirminChrist New Member

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    So, by your logic, I can go out and get me a pentegram as long as I say it represents something to do with the deity of God. Maybe I can wear amulets and charms, get a bunch of crystals and good luck charms and call them Christian symbols.

    I am sure God would say no as He has in His Word, but maybe I can even go to visit the church of satan in the name of Christ.

    Folks, sin is sin and sin can not be candy coated and called good no matter what you say. Sin cannot be found in the camp. The Triqueta is an unholy symbol no matter how much you candy coat it by saying what you see in it.
     
    #12 standingfirminChrist, May 18, 2006
  13. mcdirector

    mcdirector Active Member

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    I don't think anyone is talking about worshipping the cross -- just it's symbolic nature.

    Worshipping it is a whole different issue and really not any different than the sin of putting anything ahead of God.
     
    #13 mcdirector, May 18, 2006
  14. standingfirminChrist

    standingfirminChrist New Member

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    Right, Bitsy...

    I do not worship the cross. I do preach the message of the cross. How a spotless Lamb was lifted on a pagan cross for the sins of the world
     
    #14 standingfirminChrist, May 18, 2006
  15. gtbuzzarp

    gtbuzzarp New Member

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    I think you mean an inverted pentagram. A pentragram is a geometric shape that you get if you draw lines from the vertices of a pentagon to all other nonadjacent vertices.

    And depending on how it looked and the way you were dressed, I might thing you were some form of law enforcement. :D

    If I found a pentagram written on something with goat remains in the center, I would run away.

    Are you really advocating that geometrical shapes, absent of context, are inherently good or evil?

    So I take it you have no crystal vases or bowls or glasses at your home because someone might think you are into witchcraft?

    If I have a "quartz" wrist watch, is that evil?
    What about a quartz pocket-watch? Someone might mistake it for an amulet.

    What does this have to do with anything that we are talking about? I'm talking about symbols.

    Do you use paper money? Does that make you a worshipper of Egyptians gods because there is a pyramid on a $1 bill?

    So are symbols inherently good or evil? What sets a symbol of the Cross apart from a symbol representing the Trinity?

    Lord have mercy on Chinese Christians, those poor souls cannot use their written language because it might be mistaken for pagan symbols. :rolleyes:
     
    #15 gtbuzzarp, May 18, 2006
  16. standingfirminChrist

    standingfirminChrist New Member

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    No crystal here. And no need for a wristwatch or pocket watch, can't see 'em.

    Paper money? What's that? My SSA check is deposited automatically and bills and groceries are all done with a card.
     
    #16 standingfirminChrist, May 18, 2006
  17. webdog

    webdog Active Member
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    No.
     
    #17 webdog, May 18, 2006
  18. gtbuzzarp

    gtbuzzarp New Member

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    That is not entirely true SF. I just looked at your church's website.
    But to be fair, it is pretty much devoid of almost any decoration or adornment.
     
    #18 gtbuzzarp, May 18, 2006
  19. standingfirminChrist

    standingfirminChrist New Member

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    gtbuzz,

    I don't know what site you visited, but our church does not have any cross on it.
     
    #19 standingfirminChrist, May 18, 2006
  20. Mexdeaf

    Mexdeaf New Member

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    You didn't say 'on' your church you said 'in' your church. If you will look at the picture of the baptistry, to the right of your baptistry there is a Christian flag prominently displayed. There is a cross on that flag, or there should be.

    No one who uses an NKJV with the Triquesta on it worships it either.

    Sir, you are completely entitled to your opinions on the Triquesta, Bible versions, suicide and whatever else you choose to make a dividing point between yourself and others. However, it would do you (as a matter of fact, all of us) a world of good to have some grace towards your brethren who do not believe exactly the same as you do.

    I wish you could live somewhere where your Christian beliefs are in the minority such as Mexico. You would quickly find out that many of the things that pastors and church members (as well as BB members) fuss about don't amount to a hill of beans.
     
    #20 Mexdeaf, May 18, 2006
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