The Crucifix or the Stake?

Discussion in '2003 Archive' started by Ben W, Feb 24, 2003.

  1. Ben W

    Ben W
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    I have come to see that some churches teach that Jesus Christ was hung on a stake rather than a Cross (Jehovahs Witnesses, Worldwide Church of God etc). So which is correct, the Stake or the Crucifix?
     
  2. blackbird

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    Do your homework, Brother Ben! Then you'll find out that the Jehovah "False" Witnesses really are Jehovah's "false" witnesses!

    Blackbird
     
  3. Ernie Brazee

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    Hey ben don't you own a bible?
     
  4. Caretaker

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    http://www.carm.org/jw/stake_cross.htm

    In support of their position, they accurately state that the Greek word used in many Bibles which is translated into "cross" is the Greek word "stauros" which means, "an upright stake, esp. a pointed one, a cross.

    "1 If a stake were used, instead of a cross, then Jesus' hands would have been placed above His head with a nail driven through His wrists. Since the wrists would most likely overlap, only one nail is needed through both wrists. However, some Jehovah's Witnesses have maintained that Jesus' hands may have been placed one higher than another on the stake. The reason they say this is because of John 20:25,

    "The other disciples therefore said unto him, We have seen the Lord. But he said unto them, except I shall see in his hands the print of the nails, and put my finger into the print of the nails, and thrust my hand into his side, I will not believe."

    Notice the use of the word nails (plural) in reference to hands (plural). It makes far more sense to say that Jesus was crucified on a cross with outstretched hands and one nail in each hand placed above each other on a stake. That is why it says "...in his hands the print of the nails..."

    Again, this is not an issue of essential doctrine, but I do believe the evidence is sufficient to demonstrate that the Watchtower organization is incorrect in yet another matter.

    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++


    Stauros 7:572,1071
    Phonetic Spelling Parts of Speech
    stow-ros' Noun Masculine

    Definition
    1. an upright stake, esp. a pointed one 2. a cross

    a.
    a well known instrument of most cruel and ignominious punishment, borrowed by the Greeks and Romans from the Phoenicians; to it were affixed among the Romans, down to the time of Constantine the Great, the guiltiest criminals, particularly the basest slaves, robbers, the authors and abetters of insurrections, and occasionally in the provinces, at the arbitrary pleasure of the governors, upright and peaceable men also, and even Roman citizens themselves

    b. the crucifixion which Christ underwent

    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
    http://www.uncc.edu/jdtabor/crucifixion.html

    While many people believe that crucifixion was reserved for criminals only as a result of Plutarch's passage that "each criminal condemned to death bears his cross on his back,"3 the literature clearly shows that this class of individuals were not the only ones subjected to this ultimate fate. Alexander the Great had 2,000 survivors from the siege of Tyre crucified on the shores of the Mediterranean.4 In addition, during the times of Caligula – AD 37-41 – Jews were tortured and crucified in the amphitheater to entertain the inhabitants of Alexandria.


    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++


    The Word of God says Cross. It would have been easier to first attach the victim to a cross-bar, rather than to the stake itself, and then attach the crossbar to the upright stake. The reference in John to the plural, "nails", all lead me to believe Cross rather than stake.


    A servant of Christ,
    Drew

    [ February 24, 2003, 12:30 PM: Message edited by: Caretaker ]
     
  5. Ransom

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    As far as I know, the Greek stauros can refer to a cross as we understand it, or a T, or an upright stake with no cross-piece.

    But does it really matter?

    The point is that Jesus

    The big deal the JWs make about the shape of the instrument of Our Lord's death seems to me to be a big red herring intended only to cast doubt on Christian orthodoxy.
     
  6. rsr

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    The Worldwide Church of God (Armstrong's group) has rejected its previous teaching on the subject and has adopted the traditional view. Their tale is interesting because they came out of the opposite camp.

    http://www.wcg.org/lit/jesus/cross.htm
     
  7. Johnv

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    Roman crucifixion of criminals via a t-shaped cross is well documented in extrabiblical accounts. I therefore tend to go along with the "traditional" account of Jesus' crucifixion.
     
  8. HankD

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    Every doctrine of orthodox Christianity is denied by the Watchtower Society.

    Why would any Christian give credence to anything they say?

    HankD
     
  9. Ben W

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    Hankd, The reason that I bring the Subject up, is the fact that the Jehovahs Witnesses are only one of several groups that teach that Christ was cricified on a stake.

    Recently a friend from the Church of God Seventh Day tried to share with me this teaching. He was from the Old Worldwide COG. I denied it, but he made some interesting points. Hence I think it is worthy of discussion.
     
  10. Bible-boy

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    Christ was on crucified on a cross, not on a stake. The Bible is clear in this respect.
     
  11. HankD

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    I agree and I made my contribution to the discussion.

    HankD
     
  12. TheOliveBranch

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    The truth is, both were used, a cross and a stake, for crucifying. Tradition is what we go by when it comes to the cross. And what my Bible says, is cross. But it is the KJV, and too many will try to disprove it's "inaccurate text".

    One thing that may support the cross is the serpant on the pole in numbers. The pole would need a crossbar to hold up the serpent.
     
  13. The Harvest

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    The big deal the JWs make about the shape of the instrument of Our Lord's death seems to me to be a big red herring intended only to cast doubt on Christian orthodoxy. </font>[/QUOTE]hey, mark this down somewhere. ransom and i agree on something. :eek:
     
  14. Dr. Bob

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    Envision a 6-foot tall, firmly planted post (thick like a telephone pole). At the top is a notch, like an inverted old-fashioned clothespin.

    The criminal would be nailed or tied to a cross beam, taken from the place of judgment to the place of execution, and then lifted up and the cross-piece dropped into the notch.

    Feet would be a few inches from the ground so that the prisoner would be at eye level to the crowd, with soldiers posted so that the crowd would not abuse the prisoner further (typical of a vengeful populace).

    So was it a "stake"? Yes. Was it a "cross beam"? Yes. It was one of the most horrible devices of painful execution ever imagined. And for that, our Lord was willing . . .
     
  15. The Harvest

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    that's good info dr bob. thanks.
     

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