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Featured The Death of Jesus Christ

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by OldRegular, Jun 1, 2015.

  1. OldRegular

    OldRegular Well-Known Member

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    Trying to show that the pre-trib invention of John Nelson Darby is unBiblical!
     
  2. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    That's it? That is your only goal?
     
  3. OldRegular

    OldRegular Well-Known Member

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    These questions have not been answered!

    Following is how DHK compares the effectiveness of the sacrificial death of Jesus Christ to the power of the anti-Christ. He is, in effect, saying the anti-Christ accomplished those things that only GOD can accomplish!

    That above was posted by DHK on post #70 if the thread, The Messianic Kingdom.
     
  4. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Obviously question #1 was addressed to someone's statement. However, the answer is Christ's death accomplished Christ becoming the propitiation or means of salvation for fallen mankind. When God spiritually places a person "in Christ" they receive the reconciliation provided by Christ's death. So at any point in time following His death, (1) Christ's death provides the opportunity for salvation, and (2) for every person placed in Christ, their eternal salvation.

    2. Every born anew believer when set apart in Christ undergoes the circumcision of Christ where their sin burden is removed, and they arise in Christ righteous, holy, blameless and perfect.

    3. We are made eternally righteous, nothing can separate us from our right relationship with God.
     
  5. DHK

    DHK <b>Moderator</b>

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    The questions being answered are leading and deceptive. They assume facts not in existence.

    For example, when discussing a scripture like John 3:16, should one ask the question (after reading the verse), "Therefore, you believe Christ is coming a second time, right?"
    --The question has nothing to do with the scripture quoted.
    That is the line of questioning OR has pursued.

    The passage:
    Dan 9:24-27
    (24) Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.
    (25) Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.
    (26) And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.
    (27) And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

    His questions:
    His complaint:
    The three questions have nothing to do with the passage: Dan.9:24-27.
    Daniel 9 says nothing of the accomplishments of the cross, the righteousness of Christ being imputed on the believer, etc. There is nothing in that passage that deals with those question. How does he expect an answer to his question from a passage that doesn't speak about it?

    It must be understood from verse 24 that Gabriel is speaking to Daniel. He tells Daniel that the words that he is speaking to him are for his people and his city:
    (24) Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city,
    This is a prophecy that concerns the nation of Israel and has nothing to do with the benefits of the cross for the Gentiles. If that context is ignored, then the interpretation of it will be wrong every time.
     
    #25 DHK, Jun 7, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 7, 2015
  6. OldRegular

    OldRegular Well-Known Member

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    I agree and the questions were prompted by the response immediately following your post. Pre-tribbers will admit that Jesus Christ was crucified AFTER the 69th week but that is as far as they would go. One would think that nothing in the Old Testament was written for the Gentiles. Scripture says otherwise: 2 Timothy 3:16. All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

    GOD had believers before HE called Abraham, HE had other believers when HE called Abraham as the events around Melchizedek, priest and King of Salem, show.

    It is worth noting, as I have posted on other threads, the origin of the seven year period when the anti-Christ supposedly will do what Jesus Christ could not do as claimed in the quote in post#23.

    I would also note Van that there are several places in the New Testament where prophecies in the OT are shown to be fulfilled in the Church. One of these was at Pentecost {Acts 2:15ff} and {Acts 15:15 ff}.
     
    #26 OldRegular, Jun 8, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 8, 2015
  7. OldRegular

    OldRegular Well-Known Member

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    This is a debate Forum!
     
  8. DHK

    DHK <b>Moderator</b>

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    That is a poor excuse to give when the passage in question specifically says it is written to the nation of Israel. Is context to be ignored completely??

    Dan 9:24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city,
    "Thy people" (the nation of Israel), and "thy city" (the holy city of Jerusalem).
    The context can't get any more specific. It is not speaking about Gentiles, but about the Jews.
     
  9. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Completely agree! This truth does not in the slightest conflict with progressive dispensationalism.
     
  10. revmwc

    revmwc Well-Known Member

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    Just as the Feast of Trumpets shows the Rapture!
     
  11. revmwc

    revmwc Well-Known Member

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    Then the period of atonement leading to the Feast of Atonement in which the Jewish people were to repent:

    Then the feast of the Tabernacle and thus the 1000 year kingdom, all beautifully showing how God's plan will be carried out for the Redemption of all mankind as well as His fulfillment of the promises to National Israel as His people.
     
    #31 revmwc, Jun 9, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 9, 2015
  12. OldRegular

    OldRegular Well-Known Member

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    The moderator claimed those six conditions would be fulfilled during the seven year rule of anti-Christ. You disagreeing with him!
     
  13. DHK

    DHK <b>Moderator</b>

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  14. OldRegular

    OldRegular Well-Known Member

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    No they were not!

    From post #70, The Messianic Kingdom

     
  15. DHK

    DHK <b>Moderator</b>

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    I answered you here:
    http://www.baptistboard.com/showpost...3&postcount=17
     
  16. OldRegular

    OldRegular Well-Known Member

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    But you say that all these wonderful things happened during the 70th week while the super anti-Christ was reigning! See your post #70 from The Messianic Kingdom above.
     
    #36 OldRegular, Jun 10, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 10, 2015
  17. DHK

    DHK <b>Moderator</b>

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    The 70th week is the week or seven year period of Tribulation.
    Right at the end of that week Christ will come and defeat the armies of the enemies of Israel at the battle of Armageddon. Israel will turn to their Messiah, "And so all Israel shall be saved."

    So to be more specific what happens when?
    Dan 9:24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

    to finish the transgression,
    and to make an end of sins,
    and to make reconciliation for iniquity,
    --It would seem that these three would be right at the end of the 70th week when Christ comes.

    to bring in everlasting righteousness,
    and to seal up the vision and prophecy,
    and to anoint the most Holy.
    --And immediately after the 70th week it would appear that these three happen at the beginning of Millennial Kingdom that follows shortly after the Tribulation. After all, that is when Christ will be anointed and will bring in everlasting righteousness, not in the Tribulation.

    The events are still rather close to each other since the first three are at the end of the Tribulation and the Kingdom will start soon after.
     
  18. OldRegular

    OldRegular Well-Known Member

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    Repeating myself:

     
  19. DHK

    DHK <b>Moderator</b>

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    The antichrist is found here:
    Rev 13:8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

    Chapter 19 describes in detail the Coming of Christ at the end of the Tribulation or the 70th Week.
    Look here:
    Rev 19:20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

    Rev 19:21 And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.
    --The remnant means the rest of the enemies of Israel.

    Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
    --Then a thousand year reign will start.

    In Chapter 19, Christ came for Israel and defeated the enemies of Israel.
    In Chapter 20, Christ sets up His Kingdom.

    Perhaps, prior to this I said these things a bit hastily or meaning that they happened toward the end of the 70th week as they do. At least three of them do. The other 3 happen shortly thereafter. Either way they are still future and all are closely related to the Coming of Christ which is in the 70th week, and that is the point I was making.
     
  20. OldRegular

    OldRegular Well-Known Member

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    Repeating myself:

     
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