The decline of a nation

Discussion in 'History Forum' started by freeatlast, Mar 30, 2004.

  1. freeatlast

    freeatlast
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    .....Immediately after creating the
    Declaration of Independence, the Continental Congress voted to purchase and
    import 20,000 copies of Scripture for the people of this nation.
    Patrick Henry, who is called the firebrand of the American Revolution, is
    still remembered for his words, "Give me liberty or give me death"; but in
    current textbooks, the context of these words is omitted. Here is what he
    actually said: "An appeal to arms and the God of hosts is all that is left
    us. But we shall not fight our battle alone. There is a just God that
    presides over the destinies of nations. The battle, sir, is not to the
    strong alone. Is life so dear or peace so sweet as to be purchased at the
    price of chains and slavery? Forbid it Almighty God. I know not what course
    others may take, but as for me, give me liberty, or give me death."

    These sentences have been erased from our textbooks. Was Patrick Henry a
    Christian? The following year, 1776, he wrote this: "It cannot be emphasized
    too strongly or too often that this great Nation was founded not by
    religionists, but by Christians; not on religions, but on the Gospel of
    Jesus Christ. For that reason alone, people of other faiths have been
    afforded freedom of worship here."

    Consider these words that Thomas Jefferson wrote in the front of his
    well-worn Bible: "I am a real Christian, that is to say, a disciple of
    the doctrines of Jesus. I have little doubt that our whole country will
    soon be rallied to the unity of our creator." He was also the chairman of
    the American Bible Society, which he considered his highest and most
    important role. On July 4, 1821, President Adams said, "The highest glory of
    the American Revolution was this: "It connected in one indissoluble bond the
    principles of civil government with the principles of Christianity."

    Calvin Coolidge, our 30th President of the United States reaffirmed this
    truth when he wrote, "The foundations of our society and our government rest
    so much on the teachings of the Bible that it would be difficult to support
    them if faith in these teachings would cease to be practically universal in
    our country." In 1782, the United States Congress voted this resolution:
    "The Congress of the United States recommends and approves the Holy Bible
    for use in all schools." William Holmes McGuffey is the author of the
    McGuffey Reader, which was used for over 100 years in our public schools,
    with over 125 million copies sold, until it was stopped in 1963.

    President Lincoln called him the "Schoolmaster of the Nation." Listen to
    these words of Mr. McGuffey: "The Christian religion is the religion of our
    country. >From it are derived our nation, on the character of God, on the
    great moral Governor of the universe. On its doctrines are founded the
    peculiarities of our free Institutions From no source has the author drawn
    more conspicuously than from the sacred Scriptures. For all these extracts
    from the Bible, I make no apology."

    Of the first 108 universities founded in America, 106 were distinctly
    Christian, including the first, Harvard University, chartered in 1636. In
    the original Harvard Student Handbook, rule number 1 was that students
    seeking entrance must know Latin and Greek so that they could study the
    Scriptures: "Let every student be plainly instructed and earnestly pressed
    to consider well, the main end of his life and studies, is, to know God and
    Jesus Christ, which is eternal life, John 17:3; and therefore to lay Jesus
    Christ as the only foundation for our children to follow the moral
    principles of the Ten Commandments."

    James Madison, the primary author of the Constitution of the United
    States, said this: "We have staked the whole future of all our political
    constitutions upon the capacity of each of ourselves to govern ourselves
    according to the moral principles of the Ten Commandments."

    Most of what you read in this article has been erased from our textbooks.
    Revisionists have rewritten history to remove the truth about our country's
    Christian roots. You are encouraged to share this with others, so that the
    truth of our nation's history will be told. This information shared is only
    a drop of cement to help secure a foundation that is crumbling daily in a
    losing war that most of the country doesn't even know is raging on, in, and
    around them....

    Deu 4:7 For what nation [is there so] great, who [hath] God [so] nigh unto them, as the LORD our God [is] in all [things that] we call upon him [for]?
    Psa 33:12 Blessed [is] the nation whose God [is] the LORD; [and] the people [whom] he hath chosen for his own inheritance.
    Pro 14:34 Righteousness exalteth a nation: but sin [is] a reproach to any people.
    Isa 60:12 For the nation and kingdom that will not serve thee shall perish; yea, [those] nations shall be utterly wasted.
     
  2. Daisy

    Daisy
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    You're right, I hadn't heard that "Immediately after creating the Declaration of Independence, the Continental Congress voted to purchase and import 20,000 copies of Scripture for the people of this nation."

    Do you have a source for this?
     
  3. freeatlast

    freeatlast
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    Daisy,
    you might look here;
    http://users.ipa.net/~les/congress.html
     
  4. rsr

    rsr
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    Interestingly, this has not been found among any of Madison's writings and doesn't sound like anything he would say. More David Barton "history."

    What is the source for the affirmation that Jefferson was president of the American Bible Society?

    What was he proudest of? His epitaph reads:

    "Here was buried Thomas Jefferson, author of the Declaration of American Independence, of the Statute of Virginia for Religious Freedom, and Father of the University of Virginia."
     
  5. NaasPreacher (C4K)

    NaasPreacher (C4K)
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    You make a good argument. Please don't cheapen it by including Jefferson. He defined a Christian, as you quoted, as one who follows the doctrines of Christ, not one who is saved through the blood of Christ. Following Christ's doctrines does not make one a Christian.
     
  6. Pastor Larry

    Pastor Larry
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    Can one be a Christian without following the doctrines of Christ (cf 1, 2, 3 John)??? Isn't the blood atonement part of the doctrines of Christ???

    Jefferson may not have been a true Christian, but I hardly think he was wrong on that point.
     
  7. freeatlast

    freeatlast
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    It is interesting to see just how easy it is to get off track and onto things that mean nothing in a certain issue. In this issue the the decline of the nation is based on how our nation had turned from moral biblical principles, not on IF someone during the time of our founding was really saved.
    Our nation was not founded on the idea of any one person being a real Christian, but on the moral obligations to the Christian faith. Those obligations we have turned from today and we are seeing the results.
     
  8. NaasPreacher (C4K)

    NaasPreacher (C4K)
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    As I mentioned free, your post was very true - and a very creative piece of writing.

    I just think the inclusion of Jefferson weakens the arguement. There were many other godly men you could have used to argue your point.
     
  9. freeatlast

    freeatlast
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    Jefferson has nothing to do with it. How our nation was founded and what it stood for is however. That is what we are departing from, not Jefferson.
     
  10. NaasPreacher (C4K)

    NaasPreacher (C4K)
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    OK - you win.
     
  11. Joseph_Botwinick

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    Do you believe that absent of Christ in our lives that we can truly keep all of the moral obligations of the Christian Faith? What are those moral obligations and where are they found in scripture? Do those moral obligations include being perfect as God is perfect as Jesus mentioned near the end of his sermon on the mount?

    Joseph Botwinick
     
  12. Joseph_Botwinick

    Joseph_Botwinick
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    What was the primary reason for fighting the war against Great Britain for our freedom? Was it religious or did it have more to do with taxation without representation?

    Joseph Botwinick
     
  13. rsr

    rsr
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    freeatlast said:

    Because this is a history forum, the veracity and authenticity of the presented facts does not "meaning nothing in a certain issue."

    The original posting from which your post was copied contains other historical errors, as well.

    It is one thing to point out the Christian (especially Protestant) tradition that the founders shared and its influence on the country, but providing questionable evidence only damages the credibility of the argument.

    As to Jefferson, when he spoke of "doctrine" he did not have theology in mind, but a moral system.

    Letter to Benjamin Rush, 1803
     
  14. NaasPreacher (C4K)

    NaasPreacher (C4K)
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    I would appreciate seeing the source for this quote if possible please. I would like to look into it more becasue this does not sound like Masison. Thanks for any help you can provide in finding the source.
     
  15. rsr

    rsr
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    Unfortunately, I do not have access to the original document, Public Education and the Public Good, William and Mary Bill of Rights Journal, Summer 1995, but here is an exposition of the article:

    http://members.tripod.com/~candst/misq1.htm

    It doesn't sound like something Madison would day, but you know it's impossible to prove a negative. It has been repeated over and over and over, apparently without any substantial documentary support.
     

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