The Determination of Your Salvation Ultimately Rests Upon Whom?

Greetings

All three illustrations in John 3 are interwoven to teach the one same truth. Yes, we must be born from above - in contrast to the physical birth. Yes, we cannot see it but we can see the results - just like the wind. Yes, it is by the LOOK of faith.

It is typical of a Calvinist to pick and choose the parts of the extended discourse that favors determinism and fail to use or wilfully close their eyes to the third of the three illustrations that clearly pictures the human response.

As good as 2 out of 3 appears, it is still error.
Lloyd

 

Greetings

The self-righteous crowds asked Jesus what they might do to do the works of God (John 6:28). Jesus took their worldly question and converted by way of contrast into a Christ-centered response: believe in Him.

The Calvinist would redefine this as believe in Him after you've been zapped with eternal life.

It takes a lot of theology to get there.
Lloyd

 

As I said earlier, even when it is said "one must accept Jesus", it is still upon God alone. The act of accepting a gift does not in any way make the gift less than 100% dependant upon the giver. </font>[/QUOTE]Why would we choose life when Adam and Eve did not even choose life?

 

As I said earlier, even when it is said "one must accept Jesus", it is still upon God alone. The act of accepting a gift does not in any way make the gift less than 100% dependant upon the giver. </font>[/QUOTE]Why would we choose life when Adam and Eve did not even choose life? </font>[/QUOTE]They already had life. They did not know the definite consequences of their actions, as they were deceived by the serpent into believing they would be like God. We being born into death only choose life after the Holy Spirit convicts us that we need Christ and without Him, are damned.

 

Not only that, but when confronted by God, they blamed everyone and everything (Eve plamed the serpent, Adam blamed the woman, Adam blamed God for giving him the woman) instead of taking responsibility for their own actions.

And we still like to play the blame game todday. Just look at New Orleans.

 

Webdog,
Yes, you are right they did already have life.
Adam and Eve had a choice: Life or death they chose death, therefore they did not choose life.

We on the other hand are dead: So if we have the same choice why would we choose life when Adam and Eve did not even choose life?

 

Adam and Eve never had a choice to choose life, as they already possessed it. They were already eating from all the trees they were allowed to eat from. It was the one tree not allowed to eat, that became their only choice.

We have the choice between life and death, as A & E only had death as a choice.

 

Webdog,
If they did not eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil then they would have, by default, chosen life. Don't you understand?

 

In a human sense where the result of not choosing something eventually leading to an entirely different scenario, that is correct. Another result would not have occured if they had refused to eat of the tree, hence no choice. For instance. Non calvinists say that if calvinistic election were true, those not elected are by default elected to hell. Calvinist say just because God elects some, does not mean the rest are elected to hell, only some are mercifully saved. But the end result is different in the future for both. Adam and Eve's future would not have changed based on them continuing to do the same thing, hence no choice.

By breathing, and not suffocating yourself, are you "choosing" to breath? Choice is predecated on result.

 

Hey here now:

Webdog,
If they did not eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil then they would have, by default, chosen life. Don't you understand? </font>[/QUOTE]What do you mean by "life?" I hold that "life" in this context refers to eternal physical life. Adam and Eve would have lived forever physically in bodies judged by The Fall. Who wants to live for ever in these corrupted bodies?? Not me! God responded to Adam's rebellion by mercifully introducing physical death. Death must be seen as a blessing for it allows us entrance into eternal spiritual fellowship with God.

If you mean "spiritual life," then you pose a second plan of salvation apart from and totally different from faith in Jesus Christ.

One must mean what they say and say what they mean. Theology requires precision.
LLoyd

 

The funny thing is that Adam and Eve were not solely punished because they ate from the tree of knowledge. The main aspect of their punishment was their disobedience to God. They decided that they knew better than God and that their way was the right way. Their disobedience only shows how we cannot live with out God being trusted as our sole provider and decider of what is or is not good for us.