The Doctrine of Repentance

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Jordan Kurecki, Jan 9, 2015.

  1. Jordan Kurecki

    Jordan Kurecki
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    I decided to take a post I made in another thread and make it's own thread.

    I would like to make a few comments about repentance, Repentance absolutely is necessary for salvation. there are many who will not get saved because they know that getting saved will change them, and many of them do not want to be saved out of sin, I have met people who told me they believed Christ died for them, they believed they were a sinner, but they would not trust in Christ, because they love their sin too much. So in this situation, this person must repent of their sin and have a changed of mind and heart about sin in general, usually the king pin sins in their lives.

    I believe the Lord has really given me clarity on this issue of repentance.

    When I got saved, There were a lot of things in my life that I did not even know were sinful, so when I got saved it wasn't like I made a conscious decision to turn away from all my sins, it was more of like I just knew I was wicked and I "believed on the Lord Jesus Christ"

    Lordship Salvation is heretical, because every day I realize more and more just how wicked I truly am and God shows me every day areas where he is in fact not Lord in my life, and any honest believing Christian who takes any time to evaluate themselves will agree with this.

    In Acts 17:31 Paul talks about how God commands all men everywhere to repent, this is in the context of him speaking to idol worshipers, This is because in order to truly trust in Jesus Christ and him alone, you must turn from your idols that you are trusting in, this is also the same thing I believe Paul is talking about in 1 Th 1:9.

    Peter says in Acts 2 to repent, but he's talking in context to the Jews who have rejected Jesus, so I believe he's commanding them to repent of their unbelief of the Messiah and their rejection of him, a almost identical event takes place in Acts 3 with another command to repent.

    Then of course you have the example in Luke 13:3 to repent, if you look at the context, it's very obvious that what Jesus is commanding to repent of is self righteousness, which prevents a person from truly believing on Christ.

    So then we come to the question, must a person repent of sin to be saved? well it all comes down to what you mean repent of sin, if you mean that in order to be saved a person must be willing to go home, and pour out all their alcohol, throw away their pornography, and stop sinning, and this is what you mean when you say "turn from your sins" than you are preaching heresy and you have placed the focus on a self works. I believe repenting of sin is simply that if your love of sin is preventing you from placing your faith in Christ, because you know he will changed you and you don't want to be changed, than yes you must repent of your sin because it is preventing you from trusting in Christ.

    For example, Jesus said it is better to pluck your eye out, then to be cast into hell with both, Jesus is simply teaching that you need to turn from anything that is preventing you from receiving salvation,

    4Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me. 25For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it. 26For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?

    If someone loves their life to much to turn to Christ, then they will die and go to hell, so repenting of sin, really is turning from the love of sin which is preventing one to receiving and trust on Christ.

    The problem is many people never study out the context of when the word repent is used, and they often reference something they have heard from someone else like a parrot and they will simply quote something like Luke 13:3 and say "look it says to repent, so you must turn from your sins to be saved". This is dangerous especially to people who go around telling people that they have to turn from their sin to be saved, a lost person cannot stop sinning if they do not have the spirit of God, and when you tell people this you are placing a huge stumbling block in the way of them being saved, and it can often turn into works salvation.

    The word repent, carries the idea of a change of mind, heart, and attitude. The question you must always ask is, when the bible uses the word repent, what is it saying there must be a change of mind, heart, and attitude about?I challenge you people who hold such strong views about repentance to actually go and look at the context of how the word is used and do a biblical study on it., if you will go to these passages I have mentioned, and look at the context of where repenting is being commanded I know that the Lord will give you clarity if you seek it. Stop reading books on repentance, stop listening to preacher, go straight to the texts and passages that use the word, and it will help you understand the doctrine of repentance greatly.
     
  2. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist
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    Repentance is a change of mind. It involves the change of intellect from a state of unbelief to belief. A change of emotions from love of darkness to love of light. A change of will from resistance to submission.

    That is why repentance and faith are inseparable because when one changes from unbelief it is to belief. There is no state of limbo. Therefore one cannot change without being changed from one direction to the other direction.

    God is the one that changes us by the empowered gospel. He turns us, but if he turns us we are turning as they are simultaneous events. Pre-regeneration convictionn of sin is nothing more or less than "worldly repentance" which will always lead to death (2 Cor. 7:10) unless the gospel comes more than in word only but "in power and in the Holy Ghost and in much assurance". Regeneration/conversion is not a drawn out process but always presented by perfect or aorist tense verbs. Experiences linger but not the creative act of God (Eph. 2:1,5,8,10).

    I also do not believe in "Lordship" salvation any more than I do the position taken by the other extreme of grace without works (Eph. 2:10).
     
  3. Jordan Kurecki

    Jordan Kurecki
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    I am sorry but Luke 13:3 Jesus is not talking about repentance as a change to belief from unbelief, he's speaking of repentance of self righteousness.
    go look at the passage.
     
  4. Getting it Right

    Getting it Right
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    ~~~~~~~~~~~~


    One does not "repent" in order to be saved. One comes under Holy Spirit conviction OF sin, thereby recognizing Jesus' sacrifice and resurrection, confesses / accepts Jesus as Savior, placing belief, hope and trust, in Him and Him alone. One emerges (is born again) in salvation by Grace through Faith, the everlasting GIFT of God. When a Christian falters, it is then that he or she repents, as provided in 1 John 1:9. One does not "falter" or "fall" from Grace, one falls out of fellowship. One goes to Jesus in 1 John 1:9, who then is faithful and just to restore it.

    :godisgood:
     
  5. JamesL

    JamesL
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    Bibs is right, Jordan.

    If one is self righteous, he is trusting in himself - and not Christ.

    He cannot trust Christ without forsaking his confidence in the flesh
     
  6. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist
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    Jesus says in Luke 13:3 "repent OR....." what? Luke 24:47 presents the Great commission as preaching what???? No one can be saved without gospel repentance, but don't confuse repentance with penance.

    And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.
     
  7. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist
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    And what do you imagine that "self-righteousness" is? It is exactly what Paul says in Hebrews 6:1 that is in need of repentance "repentance from dead works." Self-righteousness is the very essence of sin.
     
  8. Getting it Right

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    To whom was Luke writing? What was his purpose in writing? The answer is that he was clarifying for the Greeks / Hellenistic Jews the presentation in the Book of Matthew. The latter was written entirely to Jews concerning their relationship to their promised Messiah. It was not about salvation by Grace through Faith.

    To "repent" is found in Judaism. Repentance was a requirement for the Hebrew Nation, National Israel, to "re-store" it to its original intent and purpose, to its standing since Abram.

    "Re" is a prefix, occurring originally in loanwords from Latin, a synonym of (or used with the meaning of) “again” to indicate repetition, to go back, or backwards, to re-generate, to re-vert, to restore a former position. It is a return to the previous condition, or repetition of a previous action: Re-encounter, Re-establish, Re-energize, Re-generate.

    "pent" is from Old English "pend," to confine, as in restricting anything to its intended status; to return to and confine a former position; the activity of re-viewing one's status under the Law and the Covenants; re-gret for abandoning one's convictions, plans, procedures, policies, path, teachings, duties, all in the Hebrew Bible.

    To pay penance is for wilfully departing from, or neglecting, the Abrahamic Covenant, the Law of Moses, the 613 rules / regulations, the 1,000 commandments, the oral traditions. One re - pents (does over) what they were doing before by re-energizing, re-generating those allegiances found in the Hebrew Bible.

    To repent, to "again do," to repeat, especially to restore, therefore, is for Jews to return to God under His Covenants with them. God calls upon Israel to repent throughout the Hebrew Bible --- to re-cognize their former position.

    :1_grouphug:
     
  9. Getting it Right

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    Yes, the Jews in the Book of Hebrews needed to repent of their dead works (substitutes) for the promises of God through Abram, looking to Jesus for Grace through Faith, not dead works.
     
  10. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist
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    You need to read it again. This is the commission FOR GENTILES

    "among all nations" - Lk. 24:47
     
  11. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist
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    Sin does not make a distinction between a Jew and Gentile, neither does it mean one thing for one and another thing for another. Neither is there any other way of salvation for one and another way for another. This is what your theory is based on and it is wrong as Hebrews 4:1 says the very same gospel preached unto Jews was preached unto "us" and Paul says that if ANY MAN or ANGEL preach any other gospel "let him be accursed" - Gal. 1:8-9
     
  12. Getting it Right

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    The Book of Hebrews was a warning to Jews not to abandon their awareness of salvation by Grace through Faith, returning to dead works instead. This was apostacy: backing away from the Truth they had been made aware of.
     
  13. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist
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    Let me break this down in piece meal fashion for you to understand.

    1. Do you think any human being is born into this world as a believer in Christ already - Jn. 3:18

    2. If not then all men are already in unbelief both JEW and GENTILE

    3. Do you believe that in order to embrace the Gospel must there be a change of mind from unbelief to belief in the gospel? If so, one aspect of gospel repentance.

    4. Do you believe that in order to embrace the gospel must there be a change in the will's resistance to the gospel to submission to the Gospel? If so, that is another aspect of genuine gospel repentance.

    5. Do you believe that in order to embrace the gospel must there be a change from "enmity against God" and love for darkness to love of light (metaphor for truth of the gospel)?? If so, that is the final aspect of true gospel repentance.
     
  14. The Biblicist

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    Just because Paul is writing a Jew does not change the nature of sin! Just because Paul is writing a Jew does not change the nature of the gospel! Your theory demands both and the Scriptures simply reject that theory.
     
  15. Getting it Right

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    1. Do you think any human being is born into this world as a believer in Christ already - Jn. 3:18 No.

    2. If not then all men are already in unbelief both JEW and GENTILE Of course. We are born in sin. We need to be delivered from sin.

    3. Do you believe that in order to embrace the Gospel must there be a change of mind from unbelief to belief in the gospel? If so, one aspect of gospel repentance. No. One responds to the ministry or "quickening" from the Holy Spirit. One comes under conviction. The "Gospel" embraces us.

    4. Do you believe that in order to embrace the gospel must there be a change in the will's resistance to the gospel to submission to the Gospel? If so, that is another aspect of genuine gospel repentance. No. One's life, will, behavior, before the quickening of the Holy Spirit is obviously at odds with the Truth. One does not "change one's mind," the Holy Spirit intervenes, facilitating confession (Romans 10:8-13).

    5. Do you believe that in order to embrace the gospel must there be a change from "enmity against God" and love for darkness to love of light (metaphor for truth of the gospel)?? If so, that is the final aspect of true gospel repentance. No, I am lost in sin until I am embraced by the love of God, not in "repentance," but in confession.
     
  16. Revmitchell

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    Repentance is necessary and I am puzzled at those who reject it.
     
  17. Getting it Right

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    Repent defined: Restore. Return.

    What would a person preparing to confess Jesus as Savior return to? There is nothing for the sinner to return to, other than "sinner." Therefore, the term "repent" used in Christianity is not applicable when used PRIOR to one's conversion to salvation by grace through faith, only thereafter. One does not "repent" (do over; go back to) those sinful things of the past. One confesses and believes and receives a NEW birth!

    Expressing sorrow for one's status as a sinner, for living a life that has been harmful to self and others, for living defiantly apart from God, may well occur, but the one doing so, coming under Holy Spirit conviction, then confesses and receives Jesus as Savior. One doesn't "return" to or restore a previous standing, or to any form of religion, as Jewish folk did when confronted for straying from the Law and the Covenants. Christianity is NOT a religion! We did not "return" to a structured formula for our existence through mechanically changing our own mind. We were saved once and for eternity by God's Amazing Grace, no works!
     
    #17 Getting it Right, Jan 9, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 9, 2015
  18. Iconoclast

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    Jordan Kurecki;

    not at all

    ,
    Because you are wicked does not mean Jesus is not Lord.
    He is Lord and you are sinning against Him. That does not make Him not be LORD.....you need to repent of those sins in which you rebel against Him.

    A CHILD WHO REBELS AGAINST THE LAWFUL AUTHORITY OF HIS PARENTS, DOES NOT NEGATE THE FACT THEY ARE HIS PARENTS.
     
  19. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast
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    Absolutely:thumbs::thumbs:
     
  20. evangelist6589

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    Lordship Salvation defended

    Luke 3:8
    8 “Therefore bear fruits in keeping with repentance, and do not begin to say to yourselves, ‘We have Abraham for our father,’ for I say to you that from these stones God is able to raise up children to Abraham.

    2 Cor 5:17
    17 Therefore if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creature; the old things passed away; behold, new things have come.

    Gal 2:20
    20 “I have been crucified with Christ; and it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself up for me.

    Rom 6:6
    6 knowing this, that our old self was crucified with Him, in order that our body of sin might be done away with, so that we would no longer be slaves to sin;

    1 John 2:3
    3 By this we know that we have come to know Him, if we keep His commandments.

    John 15:14
    14 “You are My friends if you do what I command you.

    Mt 12:50
    50 "For whoever does the will of My Father who is in heaven, he is My brother and sister and mother.”

    John 8:31
    31 So Jesus was saying to those Jews who had believed Him, “If you continue in My word, then you are truly disciples of Mine;

    Rom 6:17-18
    17 But thanks be to God that though you were slaves of sin, you became obedient from the heart to that form of teaching to which you were committed, 18 and having been freed from sin, you became slaves of righteousness.

    1 John 2:4
    4 The one who says, “I have come to know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him;
     

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