The Doctrine of Total Depravity contradicts SCRIPTURE

No. Bro. Bill wore us out on the subject last year. Go back and read the archives. </font>[/QUOTE]I don't care whats in the Archives!

What if every time a Calvinist brought up Romans 9, Eph. 1, or one of the other proof texts you always seem to turn to, the Arminians just refered you to the ARCHIVES. I'm sure just about every issue dealing with this debate has been hashed out on this board so should we just shut her down and post a big red flag that says, "READ THE ARCHIVES."

GIVE ME A BREAK.

It sounds like you are afraid to deal with an issue you know little about. Maybe it threatens to topple over your systematic house of cards by removing the foundation of Total Depravity.

Revealing.

 

What's your beef Hardsheller? This is a debate board isn't it? If you can't handle the heat stay out of the kitchen!

We can see right through your diversion tactics. If you don't want to debate someone who has actually read and can defend Arminian theology then don't come to an Arminian/Calvinist debate board.

 

Thanks Mike for the post, but I didn't read how Total Depravity relates to the biblical teaching of hardening in this particular discourse. I could have missed it, if so could you point it out? Thanks

 

Well my daddy can beat up you daddy. Na na boo boo. Good night, how old are you?

It sounds like an immature deacon, "Well Pastor, it doesn't matter if your using the bible as your support, I've been here longer than you!"

GIVE ME A BREAK!!!

I actually am working on a book. I'll let you know how that works out.

Oh. Is that now the critera of discussing biblical issues on this site?

ATTENTION ALL POSTERS: You must now cite 5, not one or two, but 5 Southern Baptist, not independant or particular but Southern Baptist sources to support any and every "theory" you present for discussion. Why? Because Hardsheller says so, and he has been here longer.

Let me just list one who supported my "theories." Jacobus Arminius.

You don't even know what a true Arminian sounds like because you have never really ever dealt with the real issues at hand. Your used to dealing with your Arminian straw men or talking to Arminians who only know John 3:16. That not true Arminianism! And if we can't debate true Arminianism on this board where do you suggest I go?

 

Oh. But you have time to get on here and bust my chops? Likely excuse.

I do believe their is a section for Baptists only. I hear it really exciting too.

Oh, I don't know. MAYBE YOU'LL LEARN SOMETHING!

This logic sound a lot like Catholism during the time of the Reformation. Who is the pope for the Southern Baptists these days? Adrian Rodgers? Jack Graham? Is it Billy Graham? Oh, they are not a Calvinists so that can't be right. Al Molher? JI Packer? Who is it that detemines if a doctrine is to be considered Baptistic?

My point is that there are many brands of Southern Baptists, you can't avoid the diversity. BTW, I am a Southern Baptist myself.

Yeah right. You won't take two minutes to deal with my arguements here what makes me believe that you would read a book?

Good advice.

Just make sure that someone is not joyfully seeking to out live you.

 

I second that motion. All in favor say "aye"

Motion carries.

Now who cares to deal with the biblical issue of hardening? Anyone?

 

There are two types of biblical hardening; each are described in detail below:

Self-Hardening of the heart goes beyond the tragic obtuseness of our inherited condition in the Fall of man. Working on the fertile soul of our innately immoral hearts, the act of sinning hardens the heart into a stubborn rebellion against all that is good. So, people may harden their own hearts, in sinful rebellion, in bitterness, or in sheer self-will. (Ex. 9:34-35; 2 Chron. 36:13; Zech. 7:12; Dan. 5:20; Eph. 4:18; Heb. 3:12-15)

This type of self-hardening is most clearly seen in Zech. 7:11-13:

"Your ancestors would not listen to this message. They turned stubbornly away and put their fingers in their ears to keep from hearing. They made their hearts as hard as stone, so they could not hear the law or the messages that the LORD Almighty had sent them by his Spirit through the earlier prophets. That is why the LORD Almighty was so angry with them. "Since they refused to listen when I called to them, I would not listen when they called to me, says the LORD Almighty.

Judicial Hardening -- In a few instances such as Pharaoh and the Egyptians (Ex. 7:3; 9:12), Sihon, king of Heshbon (Deut. 2:30), and the Hivites living in Gibeon (John 11:19-20), it is said that God hardened their hearts. Apparently these people were so irremediable in their rebellion against God that God entered into the hardening process so that he could accomplish his purposes in spite of, and yet in and through, that hardenness. It is God's prerogative, as God, to do this (Rom. 9:18-21). That they are morally responsible for their condition is a theological given, and we are warned not to harden our hearts as they did, a command that would make no sense if hardening were simply God's act (1 Sam. 6:6).

Israel's hardening as a nation was an act of self-hardening followed by God’s act of judicial hardening as clearly portrayed in the scripture (Matt. 23:37; Rom. 10-11).

God tells Isaiah that Israel, with its calloused heart, will reject him as God's messenger when he goes to them (Isa. 6:9-10). The event was taken as prophetic by Jesus (Matt. 13:14-15) and Paul (Acts 28:25-27) as referring to Israel's rejection of Jesus as God's Messiah. For Paul, Israel's hardening paved the way to a ministry of ingrafting the Gentiles (Rom. 10-11; Acts 28:28) and was not intended by God to be final, but only until fullness of the Gentile ingrafting was accomplished.

Only the Word of God has the power to cut or pierce a hardened heart (Heb. 4:12) and he has given that word through his Son, the Apostles, the scriptures and by his Spirit; all of which can be resisted and ignored as seen throughout the Bible. Hardening of the heart only grows thicker with each act of rebellion.

According to scripture only those in a hardened state are unable to see, hear, understand and believe (Acts 28:26-28: John 12:39-40). Calvinism’s doctrine of Total Depravity teaches that everyone is born in this condition due to the Fall of Man. The doctrine of Original Sin can clearly be seen in the scripture, but the Calvinistic system takes this foundational truth one step further by teaching that after the Fall God removed men’s capacity to respond to the call of the gospel, yet God, according to Calvinism, still holds men responsible for that response. Some Calvinists try to dodge this charge by arguing that mankind is able to respond, just not willing. This attempt of avoidance is pure semantics because they must admit that mankind is not able to be willing within their system and this view affords the same objections as the first. Plus, this argument nullifies many of their support texts such as John 6:65 which specifically speaks of God’s need to “enable” certain people to respond. Calvinists can’t claim verses having to do with man’s inability to come to Christ while saying “mankind is able but unwilling.” Either mankind is able or they are not. You can’t have it both ways.

 

God is as "big" as He wants to be. The question here is not what God is capable of doing, the question is what has God decided to do according to his revelation in scripture? Please tell me what it is about my post that is not biblically based?