This is a new thread as invited at the end of the old one, this time taken the opposing commentary in view, since despite the naysaying, there is another view in the literature. These verses were particularly instrumental in the discussion of "if it is ok to kill people or not", and "if casting charms or other superstitions are real or not". For instance see Reginald Scot (books burned), Roger Williams (fled to RI), Thomas Ady, George Burroughs (preacher falsely accused and killed), John Webster etc. These works are also similar to those that talked about priestcraft, another form of superstition, and in turn are similar to abolitionist books at a later time proclaming that the bible condemns slavery. I only posted the above to show that there have been whole books written on these passages, and that it played a role in ending superstition, which is a sin and needed to be ended. There is a long history of writing about the superstitions of priestcraft, starting in the 12th century, including the bells, holy water, crosses, and other things thought to drive away devils. It shows a certain amount of ignorance to say these verses have nothing to say about superstition, when a whole lot of people have been persecuted over them from superstition. I note two things. This, despite the charges of some, is not church doctrine one way or the other of any denomination I know. Claiming authority that you do not have as anyones teacher, when only God is, would be wrong. This is how I understand the verses, as God has led me to understand them. And no one has a right to insist that another person understand scripture differently than he has in truth been lead by God to understand them. Only God is our teacher. Two, the only difference between the two viewpoints, is that the one side attempts to make this a general thing about false doctrine from devils - which is said elsewhere in scripture. The other says that, and re-emphasing old wives tales and superstitions, which would cause both the forbidding to marry and (new age style) fasting. Both are true. But no church has a problem believing there is false doctrine. Churches argue (and violate acting like a Christian) over false doctrine all the time. Many have a problem with the sin of superstition. The catholic church is well known for it, where it is called priestcraft. But I am seeing that the protestant churches also have this problem - which is why you are seeing increasing amounts of a strong delusion in this society. God is absolute sovereign. He shares His glory with no one. http://kingjbible.com/1_timothy/4.htm 1Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; 2Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron; 3Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth. 4For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving: 5For it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer. 6If thou put the brethren in remembrance of these things, thou shalt be a good minister of Jesus Christ, nourished up in the words of faith and of good doctrine, whereunto thou hast attained. 7But refuse profane and old wives' fables, and exercise thyself rather unto godliness. 8For bodily exercise profiteth little: but godliness is profitable unto all things, having promise of the life that now is, and of that which is to come. 9This is a faithful saying and worthy of all acceptation. 10For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe. ------ It is not right to judge another man's servant, place yourself before God and another, etc. God is my teacher. So I humbly put these facts before you the reader, that you may be wrong about how you are interpreting scripture if you have another view. It goes against the historical view mentioned above for instance, which may not be the only understanding. A Christian who is a mature Christian knows how to discuss without being demanding, so I don't insist you believe, and know that someones conscience may see something another does not yet see. This discussion so far (from the last thread), as near as I can see, avoids the discussion about what is superstitious and old wives fables, which would led to improving apostate churches. That is what I actually believe is the important thing here. Apart from pride - which could I suppose be a knee jerk reaction from devils - making it a doctrine of devils again, don't all churches believe already that satan is the cause of much lies among churches from many other scriptures? But this one emphasis old wives fables and superstitious undertakings like not marrying or abstaining from food, or other bodily excercises - which forbidding to marry and fasting are and is quoted right after old wives fables. REPENT SINNER. It is not funny. Just admit you're wrong.