The Economy: Is it NOW Obama's Fault?

Discussion in 'Politics' started by righteousdude2, Nov 22, 2008.

  1. righteousdude2

    righteousdude2
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    For the past few weeks, I've listened to Allen Colmes, Lanny Davis, and other Obamacrats deny that the continued fall of stocks on Wall Street is not Obama's fault. And in theory that could be true. And while it is true that the market has fallen another 18% since Barrack was elected to POTUSA, his supporters continue to blame Bush, Paulsen, and the Republicans. This argument should be embraced only, and I say "only" if the Obama camp is willing to not take ANY credit for any stock market rallies through January 20, 2009.

    However, the liberals suddenly reversed their course and on after Friday's nearly 500 point rally, liberal Obama supporters gave all the credit for the rally to the appointment of Tim Geithner for the office of Secretary of the Treasury.

    This praise and exaltation is pure hypocrisy on the part of Obamacrats. If Obama is not to blame for the continued fall in the stock market [since his election], which I inclined to believe, than the theory would be correct in giving our Lame Duck President [Bush] all the praise for that huge rally yesterday.

    End of argument!!!!!
     
  2. dragonfly

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    Before you can claim an "end of argument" you need to ask yourself, "Does the same argument apply to the Bush administration? In what way does his policies figure into this collapse of the stock market? Is he to blame or is he blameless? If the current president is not to blame, I think it would be difficult to pin it on the president-elect.
     
  3. Gold Dragon

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    The markets are a complicated thing and the media likes to paint big moves as due to a single event when that is usually not true.

    While the POTUS can have influence the market to some extent with policy changes, they need to be in power to do that and Obama has yet to be able to do this.

    The other way the POTUS can influence the market is by doing or saying something that the market perceives will bring about positive policy change. If that policy change happens and does improve the market, then the market shift was justified. If the perception of positive change later appears to be negative or no change, the market may revert back or drop below its original level.

    Of course this is all happening on a background of many other factors that the POTUS has no control over whatsoever.

    Blaming a market rise or drop completely on Bush or Obama is incorrect and I think this is especially true for day-to-day fluctuations in the market. Obama has less blame because he has not had the opportunity to make any policy changes in the last 8 years like Bush has. Also Bush didn\'t do anything recently to support the most recent market rise so giving him credit for it is also incorrect.

    The reason the media is giving credit to Obama for the most recent market minor uptick is that speculators may be buying on the perception that Obama\'s cabinet choices and policy changes will improve economic outlook. We will see over the long run whether this is true or not by looking at larger trends than the daily roller coaster of the markets.
     
  4. OldRegular

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    It was democrat policy that forced banks to make loans to those who couldn't pay. It was the democrat in Congress that blocked attempts at oversight and reform of Freddie and Fanny. It was Barney Frank and Chris Dodd who blocked that reform insisting there was no problem. It was Chris Dodd and Barak Obama who got special treatment on mortgage loans. It was Senator Schumer's stupid remarks early last summer that led to a run on a California bank, perhaps precipitating the entire problem.
     
  5. JustChristian

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    The commentary on the market surge on Friday wasn't made by "liberals." It was made by financial reporters like those on CNN. Actually, I don't think that was true. I think Friday was simply another short-term upswing in an historic bear market.
     
  6. TrustingInHim

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    Agreed. I would not want to be in Obama's shoes with this economic nightmare in full swing; so I will not be judging him as hero or scape goat on this situation anytime soon. This crisis has been stewing along ever since the beginning of the "easy credit" era and it will not be resolved over night either. There's enough blame to go around, this is certain. But the primary cause of this mess is a lack of personal, governmental, and corporate good judgement, restraint, responsibility, and discretion. In a word it was caused by: greed.
     
  7. LeBuick

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    I contend the economy is your fault RD...

    You keep scaring people about how harmful Obama will be to the economy so they get scared and sell off their stocks which is killing the market. I think if you change your tune the market will go up... How about giving that a try... :laugh: :thumbs:
     
  8. NaasPreacher (C4K)

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    I find your own personal 'End of argument' declaration less than final, even if you feel the need to shout it.

    The is a lot more to this argument to come.

    At the end of the day, of course Obama's thoughts have an impact at the moment, everything does right now. But he cannot be hailed at scapegoat or hero until he takes office.

    I also think this was a one day upturn and that things will continue to decline Monday.
     
    #8 NaasPreacher (C4K), Nov 23, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 23, 2008
  9. Martin

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    ==Since I did not support Obama, and did not vote for Obama, I can hardly be accused of being an Obamacrat. However I am amazed at conservatives who are using these tactics against our next President. I expect these type of tactics from liberal democrats, I expect better from conservatives. The economy has been on the ropes for more than a year now, the crash happened before the election, the current economic situation is just a continuation of all of that. Nothing that has happened, yet, is Obama's "fault". The same direction would have occured if McCain had been elected.


    ==That is the same type argument the democrats used against Bush when they blamed him for 9/11. They ignored the fact that the terrorists were planning and plotting long before Bush took office and long before 9/11. It just so happened that their evil plans were acted upon during his administration. The markets were going to take a sharp dive after 11/4. There have been several very bad economic reports, the three major car companies have threatened more trouble, thus there has been a great deal of uncertainty. Historically that causes the markets to fall. Obama has not taken office, his cabinet has not even been formed, and none of his plans have been put into action. Therefore I see it as totally illogical to blame him for anything. To place the blame at his doorstep seems to me to be a partisan argument.

    Let's not forget that the markets rallied on Friday. While I really doubt that continues it is a sign that Obama is not the problem. The problem is the economy, it is sick, in critical condition, in the intensive care unit.

    ==I don't generally blame or credit any one person for the direction of the economy. The economy is larger than the president. The current situation is, at the end of the day, everyones fault. From the president, to the congress, all the way down to the house wife purchasing a new dress she can't afford with her credit card.

    However it is typical partisanship to accuse a president for causing the bad economy. That is why I believe as Christian conservatives we should not be guilty fo that.

    I could say more, but I just noticed the clock! I am almost late for church...bye!!!
     
  10. righteousdude2

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    I Can't Take the Pressure for Bringing Down the Market

    Please tell me it isn't true LE. If the fault is mine, it would kill me. The pressure would be way to heavy to carry on my back.:laugh:

    Of course, I think you over estimate my ability to sway anyone, let alone the market. But, I count it a blessing to be seen as the central reason for the downfall of Wall Street.:laugh:
     
  11. LeBuick

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    By the way, the market has gone up two consecutive days after Obama names his economic team. Since he get's credit for the fall, does he also get credit for the rise?
     
  12. Dave

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    A little perspective

    It looks to me that we need a little reminder of some salient facts to put a little perspective on this discussion. Let's remember that when Bush took office in January, 2001 the dot com bubble had burst a year or so before and we were in a recession as a result of the Clinton economic policies. Shortl after he got in the economy took hits from other holdovers from the Clinton years; 9/11, Worldcom and Enron. Despite this we had an conomic turnaround that lasted until the liberals took over Congress in 2006. The liberals in Congress have been doing everything they could do convince the pubic that the economy was a mess. Since the economy is greatly dependent on public confidence, this played a large part in precipitating the current ecoomic crisis. I agree that this is not Obama's fault only. It is directly attributable to the democratic leadership for these and many other reasons.
     
  13. righteousdude2

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    I Honestly Don't Know

    It may take another dive tomorrow, so don't get too cocky my friend.:thumbs:
     
  14. Crabtownboy

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    Check the thread on Where is the dow going ....................
     
  15. saturneptune

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    Tracking the market swings and reacting to such on a daily basis is exactly why so many have lost money. If you are near retirement, say within a few years, you should be in a captial preservation mode. It serves no purpose to worry about what a market does in a given day or week.

    The cause of the present economic mess is greed on everyone's part and cycles that always happen.

    For you Democratic and Republican apologists, keep pointing fingers and assigning blame. You should all join the circus.
     
  16. LeBuick

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    Nope, went up again today...
     
  17. righteousdude2

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    Hey, It's going UP^^^^^^^^

    Well, that Obama magic has finally sunk in, and the market is heading back up. That is an answer to prayers. I do not want to see this market fail as I have too many brothers and sisters that are losing their shirts on the market. So, if Obama gets the credit, or if Bush gets the credit, I don't care. I am just happy that it has had four positive days, and I pray that the BEAR go away, as the BULL rushes in and rescues us.:thumbs:
     

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