The Elect are the Who-so-evers.

Then that grace has appeared to Idi Amin, to Hitler, to Stalin, to the Green River Killer, to the BTK killer, to Osama bin Laden, to the Night Stalker, to the child rapist who raped and murdered a child as soon as he got out on parole, to all the cannibals who ever quartered a fellow human being, to all the Amalekites, to all men who existed before the Bible was written, to all men who existed outside of Biblical lands, to all die-hard communists and atheists, to all murderous rebels, etc., etc., etc.by [refer to poster by actual name]

You are finally getting it right! Who so ever will doesn't mean who so ever did. Most have rejected the Grace of God. Of course you don't understand this.

 

Be careful here. Calling pinoybaptist "phony"Baptist is getting close to a personal attack, even in jest.

 

Reported. I'm sick of your personal attacks, KJV Kid.

Sopranette

 

Which only proves the point that the whosoevers are the elect, and vice-versa.
I wonder where you get the idea that the God who speaks things into existence will be powerless to save WHOM He wants, WHEN He wants, HOW he wants, and WHERE he wants ?
Now, if man is on the throne, then, of course, God's sovereign will must be relegated, and then man can invent such phrases as God can allow man to choose and remain sovereign.

 

Of course the whole world will not be saved because of "unbelief".
The atonement was made for all, but you must believe for God to use the atonement to cleanse your sins.

1 Timothy 2:3-6 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

Romans 10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Also, I respect the Calvinist, so don't link me with any negativity against anyone, please.

BBob,

 

Bro. Dallas if that was the only scripture you might have an argument, but there are so many other scripture. It seems the whole Bible is on "belief" to me.

"whosoever" means just that. whosoever believes.

John 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

John 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

Acts 10:43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.

Romans 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

Romans 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

Romans 10:4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

1 John 5:1 Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him.

Why would the Lord say "thy faith hath made thee whole" when if as you say, they were already chosen to be saved. That would not be faith, but "the chosen"??

If it were not up to man to "believe", then faith would be made void.

Bless,

BBob,

 

It kinda boils down to this, AAA --- are we saved JUDICIALLY or are we saved by GRACE?

Free will would say that we must come to Christ (changing places before our Judge) before we will be saved.

Calvinism says we are saved by "election" -- God's choice, God's grace.


Which is it?

skypair

 

Jos 24:15And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that [were] on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD.

:thumbs:

BBob,

 

Dear Rippon,
I agree with you. God will draw all the elect with an everlasting Love, which is Christ.

As far as that # being indefinite, it is to the extent that we do not know who the whosoevers are, I agree Christ knows each one by name for whom He died and was raised for their justification.

Dear Brother Bob,

Choose you this day is spoken to the people of God, not to lost sinners. Those who are regenerated and enabled can choose.

bro. Dallas

 

That is not choosing by the regenerated but chosen by God. Goes completely against the scriptures I gave you, especially "for me and my house, we will serve the Lord".

Now the reason he was regenerated is because of faith, he did "believe" and God gave him a heart of flesh, instead of stone.
So, here is another one that the Lord can say: "thy faith hath made thee whole". :thumbs:

Bless,

BBob,

 

Dear Brother Bob,

'believeth' and 'hath' are both third person singular, present tense and singular simple respectively.

hath is a simple present form of 'have'.

believeth is he who is believing; as one who 'goeth' or 'maketh' it is present tense, now happening.

Thus 'he that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life:' is one who is believing, not one who believes and receives (spelling?) but one who is believing already.

May God Bless,
bro. Dallas

 

That is just my point Bro Dallas and goes directly against your belief. You must believe (believing) to be saved.

Romans 10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Act 2:21And it shall come to pass, [that] whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.

1Ti 2:3For this [is] good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;

1Ti 2:4Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

1Ti 2:6Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

Bless,



BBob,

 

Scripture disagrees...

Romans 1:25 For they exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen.

To exchange something means the CHOICE is present to do so.

 

Main Entry: who·so·ev·er Pronunciation: \ˌhü-sə-ˈwe-vər\ Function: pronoun Date: 13th century : whoever




Everybody see that? WHOEVER
The title of the OP shows theological dyslexia......the "who-so-evers are the elect"

 

You can say whatever you want including "those who", but it is not correct, and just shows the extent of twisting and eisegesis one will go through to make the Bible fit their theology.

Main Entry: who·so·ev·er Pronunciation: \ˌhü-sə-ˈwe-vər\ Function: pronoun Date: 13th century : whoever

 

brothers....

Romans 1:25 is saying they twisted the truth into something other than the truth which is a rejection of the truth, which is what all Calvinist say all men do if they are not the elect.

But being that you bring this passage up....

check out the next verse....

Why does God give some over to their own affections as seen in this passage, yet others God rebukes and chastens and ask to repent?

any ideas?

 

The statement, 'choose ye this day' is spoken to the People of God.

As I said, these do have a choice, having previously been regenerated, thus, as children of God.

An unregenerate person can freely choose within the bonds of his sin nature and will always NOT choose the truth of God.

bro. Dallas

 

Um....that's not what it says. Let's try that again:

Romans 1:25 For they exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen.

THEY exchanged the Truth, not they twisted the truth.

While that next verses says nothing about rebuking and chastening, it states emphatically for that reason (exchanging that which was Truth for that which is a lie) He gave them over to what they wanted (their own affections).

 

As I showed earlier, for one person to exchange something...anything...the choice is there to do so.

If I walk into a store and exchange a red shirt for a blue shirt, I have that ability to choose to do so on what I desire.

Presupposition not backed by Scripture based on the extrabiblical view of regeneration preceding faith.