The Eternal Covenant

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Ruiz, Aug 1, 2010.

  1. Ruiz

    Ruiz
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2010
    Messages:
    2,021
    Likes Received:
    0
    Hebrews 13:20 refers to the "eternal covenant"

    What is this referring to?
    Is this Eternal Past, Eternal Future, or both?
    Who made the Covenant and with whom?
    What are the ramifications of the Eternal Covenant?
     
  2. kyredneck

    kyredneck
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2009
    Messages:
    10,548
    Likes Received:
    273
    The Covenant of Grace is the Eternal Covenant.

    There's actually nothing new about any of the spiritual tenets of the New Covenant. It's 'new' only because the mysteries of it had not been heretofore revealed until the time came for the removal of the old; i.e. '...the removing of those things that are shaken.....that those things which are not shaken may remain.' (Heb 12:27); 'In that He saith, A new covenant he hath made the first old...' (Heb 8:13)

    Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and to-day, yea and for ever. Heb 13:8

    I like Pink on this (I like Pink on a lot of things):

    “....The everlasting covenant or covenant of grace is that mutual agreement into which the Father entered with His Son before the foundation of the world respecting the salvation of His elect, Christ being appointed the mediator, He willingly consenting to be their head and representative. That there is a divine covenant to which Christ stands related, and that the great work which He performed here on earth was the discharge of His covenant office, is very plain from many Scriptures....”
    http://www.pbministries.org/books/pink/Divine_Covenants/divine_covenants_01.htm

    I would have to say that the Eternal Covenant (with all that it entails) could well be considered the major theme of the scriptures.
     
    #2 kyredneck, Aug 2, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 2, 2010
  3. Webers_Home

    Webers_Home
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2010
    Messages:
    66
    Likes Received:
    0
    Response to Ruiz

    .
    RE: Hebrews 13:20 refers to the "eternal covenant" What is this referring to?

    It refers to the new covenant; a covenant which was predicted in the Old Testament many years prior to Christ's birth. The new covenant isn't a revision of the first covenant that God made with Yhvh's people in the books of Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, and Deuteronomy. The new covenant is entirely fresh.

    †. Jer 31:31-34 …See, a time is coming— declares the Lord —when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and the house of Judah. It will not be like the covenant I made with their fathers, when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt, a covenant which they broke, though I espoused them— declares the Lord.

    . . . But such is the covenant I will make with the house of Israel after these days— declares the Lord —I will put my teachings into their inmost being and inscribe it upon their hearts. Then I will be their God, and they shall be my people. No longer will they need to admonish one another and say to one another "Heed the Lord" for all of them, from the least of them to the greatest, shall heed Me— declares the Lord —for I will forgive their iniquities, and remember their sins no more.

    Ezekiel too predicted the new covenant.

    †. Ezek 36:24-28 …I will take you from among the nations and gather you from all the countries, and I will bring you back to your own land. I will sprinkle clean water upon you, and you shall be clean: I will cleanse you from all your uncleanness and from all your fetishes. And I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit into you: I will remove the heart of stone from your body and give you a tender heart; and I will put My spirit into you. Thus I will cause you to follow My laws and faithfully to observe My rules. Then you shall dwell in the land which I gave to your fathers, and you shall be My people and I will be your God.

    RE: Is this Eternal Past, Eternal Future, or both?

    Obviously it's eternal-future judging by all the "I will" provisions since "I will" is future tense.

    RE: Who made the Covenant and with whom?

    The covenant is predicted to be made by Yhvh with His people.

    RE: What are the ramifications of the Eternal Covenant?

    The most important ramification by far is "I will forgive their iniquities, and remember their sins no more."

    Under the terms and conditions of the first covenant; sins are neither forgiven nor forgotten. The best the first covenant had to offer in regards to forgiveness was a reprieve. In other words, sacrifices covered sins; but did not delete them. Once a year Judaism is reminded on Yom Kippur that its sins are still on the books.

    Another major benefit of the new covenant is the forgiveness of deliberate sins; which can be defined as an act someone commits in the full knowledge that what they are about to do is forbidden. Aaron's atonement system had nothing for those kinds of sins. For many of us, that benefit is the most important one of all.

    A third benefit is the promise of a heart transplant; which is something that the Pharisees of Jesus' day really needed because they were so callous, insensitive, thoughtless, unmerciful, and hard-hearted.

    And finally, a miraculous change of attitude from one of a natural resistance to God's wishes; to a natural willingness to fully comply with them.

    A commonly-overlooked aspect of the new covenant is that its blessings are unconditional, in contrast to the first covenant's blessings; which were totally conditional. (cf. Deut 28:1-68)

    C.L.I.F.F.
    /
     
  4. pinoybaptist

    pinoybaptist
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2002
    Messages:
    8,123
    Likes Received:
    1
    how can an eternal covenant be a new covenant ?
     
  5. kyredneck

    kyredneck
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2009
    Messages:
    10,548
    Likes Received:
    273
    Very pertainent question Brother, to which I'm certain you already know the answer to. It's as I said; It's 'New' only in the sense that the tenets of it had never been revealed until the coming of Christ.

    BUT, 'when the fulness of the time came, God sent forth his Son, born of a woman, born under the law (Gal 4:4), with Christ Himself declaring, “ The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand” (Mk 1:15), and God, 'making known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he purposed in Him unto a dispensation of the fulness of the times, to sum up all things in Christ, the things in the heavens, and the things upon the earth; in him.' (Eph 1:9,10).
     
  6. Webers_Home

    Webers_Home
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2010
    Messages:
    66
    Likes Received:
    0
    Response to pinoybaptist

    .
    RE: how can an eternal covenant be a new covenant ?

    †. Heb 13:20-21 . . May the God of peace, who through the blood of the eternal covenant brought back from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great Shepherd of the sheep, equip you with everything good for doing his will, and may he work in us what is pleasing to him, through Jesus Christ, to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.

    The koiné Greek word for "eternal" in that passage is aionios (ahee-o'-nee-os) which means: perpetual. Aionious is one of those ambiguous Bible words that can be taken more than one way. It can refer to the past and/or it can refer to the future; as in "everlasting" :in other words, never ending.

    Aionios is the word John chose to describe Christ's post-resurrection physical health.

    †. Rev 1:18 . . I was dead, and behold I am alive for ever and ever! (Indicating that Christ will never again undergo death.)

    If perchance you're a bit autistic then you have my sympathy. According to information in Temple Grandin's book— Thinking In Pictures —autistic people are frustrated by ambiguous words. They prefer that words have a single, narrow, precise definition; but such is not the case with a pretty good number of not only Bible words, but also common English words so autistic people often fall prey to getting the wrong impression.

    But they're not alone. Regular, non-autistic people sometimes find themselves victims of scotoma; which if you've seen and/or read The Davinci Code, you know is a subconsciously induced psychological blindness caused by the mind's propensity to disregard concepts that are incongruous with deep seated, preconceived notions. In other words; the mind automatically glosses over the obvious when the obvious doesn't harmonize with the mind's already in-place concepts.

    When data enters your head, the human mind begins an automatic, subconscious search for points of reference so it can process the data into a context that you can understand. Left to itself, the mind will automatically discard unfamiliar data rather than expend the energy to learn something new; which is exactly why learning something new takes effort; and is also why people will cling doggedly to an error rather than permit themselves to be corrected. The subconscious is a stand-up fighter who doesn't let go its concepts peaceably. This is graphically, and thrillingly, illustrated in the fascinating new Leonardo DiCaprio movie: Inception.

    C.L.I.F.F.
    /
     
  7. kyredneck

    kyredneck
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2009
    Messages:
    10,548
    Likes Received:
    273


    Are you dense? You can't see the plain statement of scripture?:

    .....the removing of those things that are shaken.....that those things which are not shaken may remain.' (Heb 12:27); 'In that He saith, A new covenant he hath made the first old...' (Heb 8:13)

    The only reason it's called new is because the first was made old. It had always been.
     
  8. pinoybaptist

    pinoybaptist
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2002
    Messages:
    8,123
    Likes Received:
    1

    Insults will get you nowhere on this board, jackwagon.
    Because unlike many here, I am willing to trade insult for insult.
    But because you are new, for now, I will be lenient.
    But you've been told.
    Discuss like a Christian and you'll be discussed with like one.
    Discuss like a street boy, and you'll be talked to like one.
     
  9. kyredneck

    kyredneck
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2009
    Messages:
    10,548
    Likes Received:
    273
    edit_never mind
     
    #9 kyredneck, Aug 2, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 2, 2010

Share This Page

Loading...