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Featured The Failed War On Drugs

Discussion in 'Political Debate & Discussion' started by poncho, Jan 19, 2014.

  1. poncho

    poncho Well-Known Member

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    You mean asking questions you are afraid to answer?

    No, I believe I'll keep on using this tactic to your disadvantage. :laugh:

    You can go ahead and start insulting me now if you have any good ones if not I'm sure you and TND can do some brainstorming together and come up with something most entertaining. :1_grouphug:

    Or you can always plead the fifth and remain silent like TND. :)
     
    #41 poncho, Jan 30, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 30, 2014
  2. Gina B

    Gina B Active Member

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    I'm not arguing that. I'm saying your logic behind the argument is flawed - that if something is made illegal and you do it anyway, then you only have yourself to blame if you go to prison. People aren't perfect, and they do make imperfect, and even flat out wrong laws.

    Even if something is not good for you, it doesn't mean there needs to be a law against it.

    Micro-controlling society is silly.

    Do you realize how ridiculous and overblown this whole "pot" this has become in the United States? It's nearly impossible to get a license to grow hemp here, because everyone is convinced that all hemp is pot. However, agricultural hemp doesn't contain THC, so what happens? Other countries grow it and sell it to the United States, which is perfectly legal, because it doesn't contain THC. So we buy it imported and make rope, clothes, shoes, eat it for breakfast, ingest hemp oil for our health, all kinds of stuff. The other countries are laughing at us for being stupid. With our money in their hands.

    Do you know how many things grow naturally that do crazy things to people? I don't see those being banned. There's a common root out there that is deadly and all you have to do is make a cup of tea out of it. It's easily mistaken for a root that is very healing if someone doesn't know what they're doing. (which is why I'm not naming it) Do we ban that root? It makes just as much sense. There are people who could use it as a deadly weapon. That's much worse than getting high, imo. You can get unhigh. You can't get undead.
     
  3. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    Ok well when you grow up let me know.
     
  4. poncho

    poncho Well-Known Member

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    Is that your best shot? I'm so underwhelmed. :rolleyes:
     
  5. poncho

    poncho Well-Known Member

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    In summary the Rev's argument is "the rules is the rules" and TND's argument is "you're a Marxist nutcase if you disagree with me" and Poor ITL doesn't even have an argument.

    Good grief. :tonofbricks:
     
    #45 poncho, Jan 30, 2014
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  6. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    We have to follow even imperfect laws or suffer the consequences. We do not get to decide for ourselves which laws we will and will not follow and then act like a victim just because we do not like them. That is called anarchy.
     
  7. poncho

    poncho Well-Known Member

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    Looks like we don't have to wonder which side you would have been on during the American revolution.

    [​IMG] Do we?
     
    #47 poncho, Jan 30, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 30, 2014
  8. InTheLight

    InTheLight Well-Known Member
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    The drug producers and drug runners.

    So, for the third time, do you believe in legalizing:

    Pot?
    Cocaine?
    Meth?
     
  9. prophet

    prophet Active Member
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    "Legalizing" is a false premise.
    Repealing the unConstitutional ban on certain plants, is the correct premise.
     
  10. thisnumbersdisconnected

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    It's not unconstitutional. That's an opinion from the side that wants legalization. The problem with the argument is that the states accept federal funds. Federal funds being general revenue from across the country, rather than from individual states -- it isn't tabulated or accounted for in that manner -- the feds therefore have the right to lay down guidelines for how federal money is spent. That's true of everything from unemployment benefits to Medicaid and Medicare to drug enforcement.

    Ostensibly, that right derives from the fed's "interest" in assuring that everything that is federal funded is uniformly implemented nationwide. They you don't have welfare moms moving from state to state to state taking advantage of differing welfare requirements. (Except that we do.) You don't have vastly differentiating unemployment benefits based on anything other than the individual states' costs of living. (Except that we do.) And you don't have -- or shouldn't have -- differing drug laws that result in vastly disparate prison terms for the same drug offense committed in different states. Unfortunately, drug, unemployment and welfare enforcement nationwide is widely disparate.

    The issue isn't, however, the states' implementation of the laws as they see fit. It is their refusal to develop a uniform approach under federal guidelines. That is the real issue, and it is the feds that have a beef with the states, not the other way around. Not that I want the states to become victims of an ever-expanding and overreaching U.S. government, but under the law and the implementation of these programs, that's the scenario. When the states stop taking federal funds -- hint: not gonna happen -- they'll have an argument. But with things the way they are, they haven't a leg to stand on.
     
    #50 thisnumbersdisconnected, Jan 31, 2014
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  11. prophet

    prophet Active Member
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    The law, banning the private use of certain plants, excludes some companies, because they manufacture drugs overseen by the same fed. FDA. So the law, allowing some "chosen" companies (think: kickbacks, political or monetary) to grow, cultivate, harvest, refine, and distribute those same plants, is unConstitutional.
     
  12. thisnumbersdisconnected

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    Drugs manufactured in this country are 100% synthetic. Your argument is baseless. If you're thinking farm products, that's laughable.
     
  13. poncho

    poncho Well-Known Member

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    I'm beginning to think you and the Rev suffer from the same phobia. Fear of answering questions.
     
    #53 poncho, Jan 31, 2014
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  14. Gina B

    Gina B Active Member

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    Then I'm an anarchist. I do believe we should decide for ourselves which laws we will not follow, when those laws fly in the face of common sense. It's not just something I think should be done, I believe it's an obligation.

    What happens if we don't?

    What if nobody went against the laws that said you could capture and sell humans as slaves with no rights?

    What if nobody went against apartheid?

    What if nobody went against the Bible being illegal?

    When you're so quick to defend all laws, remember that these laws and those making them? They are what make a lot of things you don't believe in legal. Do you believe in abortion? Do you believe that school teachers shouldn't be allowed to pray with a student in school? Do you believe in the ACA? Do you believe in same sex marriages?

    It goes both ways.

    If people never stood up against unjust laws, we'd live in a very different country right now. Actually, it's changing rapidly because of changing laws. Do you like the changes? Do you find the changes appealing to your sense of morality, and think things are changing for the better?
     
  15. poncho

    poncho Well-Known Member

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    I bet the Rev get's uncontrollable convulsions when he reads the Declaration of Independence.
     
  16. poncho

    poncho Well-Known Member

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    What's laughable is how far you and your two amigos will go to avoid answering a simple question.

    Like, who benefits most from drug prohibition?

    [​IMG]

    Why do they fear answering this question? Because it might actually start a real debate about . . .

    Prohibition Side-Effects

    Corruption of Law Enforcement

    Putting Drug Safety and Control in the hands of Criminals

    Over-incarceration and the influence of the Prison-Industrial Complex

    Enormous Black Market Criminal Profits

    Drug War Violence

    Damage to the Environment

    Destruction of Families

    Damage to Inner Cities and Poor Communities

    Militarization of Law Enforcement and the Victims of Drug War Tactics

    Racism and Civil Rights

    Erosion of Civil Liberties

    Foreign Policy Disasters

    Financial Cost

    Loss of the Truth


    http://www.legalizationfacts.com/
     
    #56 poncho, Jan 31, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 31, 2014
  17. InTheLight

    InTheLight Well-Known Member
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    Asked and answered. But I'll retype it for you again.

    THE DRUG PRODUCERS AND DRUG RUNNERS.

    So, for the fourth time, do you believe in legalizing:

    Pot?
    Cocaine?
    Meth?
     
  18. poncho

    poncho Well-Known Member

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    Yes you did indeed. My mistake and I sincerely apologize for casting doubt on you unnecessarily.

    The answer to your question is yes I do. And some of the reasons are because of prohibition's side-effects.

    Corruption of Law Enforcement

    Putting Drug Safety and Control in the hands of Criminals

    Over-incarceration and the influence of the Prison-Industrial Complex

    Enormous Black Market Criminal Profits

    Drug War Violence

    Damage to the Environment

    Destruction of Families

    Damage to Inner Cities and Poor Communities

    Militarization of Law Enforcement and the Victims of Drug War Tactics

    Racism and Civil Rights

    Erosion of Civil Liberties

    Foreign Policy Disasters

    Financial Cost

    Loss of the Truth


    http://www.legalizationfacts.com/

    When some people hear about legalization of drugs, they seem to think that the word "legalization" means a complete lack of control - total anarchy. And you'll hear them talk about "legalizers" in bizarre notions.

    Oh, yes, he's a legalizer. If he has his way, heroin will be sold to 8-year-olds at the 7-11 in pre-packaged syringes, next to the bubble gum.

    Of course, this is nonsense. In fact, legalization is much more nuanced.

    Legalization: A status where responsible adults may legally acquire, possess, and use a particular drug, although there may be restrictions on time, place and manner. Legal does not mean unregulated. In fact, when it comes to drugs, most supporters of legalization call for some regulation and control.

    Consider gasoline. It is an extremely dangerous substance -- it can cause severe health problems or death if inhaled, can be fashioned into an explosive and can cause damaging fires. It is a legal substance (responsible adults may acquire, possess, and use it), but it is subject to control and regulation. It can only be sold by licensed dealers, and there are regulations as to how it may be used, in what kind of containers it may be stored, and so forth.

    Legalization of drugs is fully compatible with regulatory efforts restricting access to children, forbidding use while driving or while working in safety-sensitive jobs, banning use in certain locations or situations, controlling the means for manufacture and distribution (including taxation and labeling), and creating standards for purity and potency.

    http://www.legalizationfacts.com/options/index.htm
     
    #58 poncho, Jan 31, 2014
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  19. InTheLight

    InTheLight Well-Known Member
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    I think good intellectual arguments can be made for legalization but they are all trumped by the fact that legalization would have an overall net effect of making society whose than it is now. A whole new set of widespread problems would be created (think of the increase of addicted do-nothings society would have to support) that would likely take generations to overcome.
     
  20. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    Ok well you are trying to make broad sweeping generalizations in order to defend your wanting pot legal. There is nothing unjust about making pot illegal and nothing here against common sense. So you are swatting are your own strawman.
     
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