The fate of beasts?

Discussion in '2004 Archive' started by Brother Tim, Dec 17, 2004.

  1. Brother Tim

    Brother Tim
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    These thoughts came to me a few days ago. I thought it something of a mind-bender.

    Animals don't have souls, but do they have a place in heaven? We humans were given a soul and therefore a responsability to seek God within our lifetimes. Being a resposability as we have a soul to lose if we fail.

    Animals didn't disobey God in the Garden of Eden, but we did. However, the animals shared in some part our punishment, bound to eke out a living in a violent world, killing for it's survival. The tiger dosen't have to make any moral choices, and dosen't have free will. It behaves exactly how it supposed to do, neither good or evil.

    Your cat dies a physical death, but does she persist somehow? REV 5, 6-9 describes beasts giving glory and honor and thanks to God. She dosen't have a soul to lose, does she go to heaven to worship God for eternity? There's no referance to animals condemned to hell.

    This has nothing to do with human salvation. I only thought of it because I've heard some people justify indifference to the suffering of animals on Biblical grounds. Some believing that animals are incapable of "knowing" fear, pain affection or love.

    Perhaps I think too much.
     
  2. Marcia

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    I don't think animals can worship God, but the Bible seems to say there will be animals in the new heaven and new earth (see Is 11). Since Eden will basically be restored, I do not think it is a stretch to think animals will be there.

    The question is: Will they be the same animals that lived before? I think we don't know. As an animal lover myself, it is hard for me to think the individual personalities that many animals possess are eradicated forever. God loves his creatures, and mammals in particular seems to have individual personalities (especially doggies and kitties!). I still miss my German Shepherd that died in 1986! I am hoping to see her in heaven! She was such a wonderful dog.

    I think it is extremely wrong and unbiblical to think animals cannot suffer! That's insane! Of course, they suffer. They feel pain and show affection. And I think it is unchristian to be cruel to animals. There is no Biblical basis for that at all.
     
  3. LadyEagle

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    Without a doubt! No time for Scripture references right now, but will post more later.

    Also, Jesus comes back to earth on a WHITE HORSE! [​IMG] [​IMG] I have no doubt my kitties are waiting for me over there in Glory. Why? Because I asked Jesus to keep them safe for me til I get there, too. [​IMG]
     
  4. PastorGreg

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    Sorry to burst all the sappy little bubbles, but animals do not go to heaven when they die. (And if animals did, no cat would ever make it anyway.) I love animals, but let's be real. When they die they're dead. Gone. Kaput. Existence has ceased. Yes, there will be animals in the millennial kingdom, but that's not heaven, and it's not the new earth. It's this same earth.
     
  5. menageriekeeper

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    Gotta scripture for us Pastor Greg?
     
  6. LadyEagle

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    Nah, probably not.

    Comment from a book by two well-known Baptists,
    W.A. Criswell and Paige Patterson about heaven:

    http://www.woodhavenlabs.com/animals-heaven2.html


    Why should we believe there will be a Tree of Life and there will be plants and trees in the New Heaven and New Earth, but no pets? God never wastes anything!

    The Bible says, let everything that hath breath praise the Lord! That includes animals and plants, too. Man and animals breathe oxygen and give off carbon dioxide; plants breathe carbon dioxide and give off oxygen - all part of the life cycle. We ALL have BREATH! [​IMG]
     
  7. Phillip

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    We do not know the powers that we will have, nor do we know if God is willing; but why would it stop Him from ressurrecting our close pet, especially if we wanted him/her with us because they give us happiness.

    Sure, I have no problem with, an animal is dead, its dead. But, God also has the power of ressurection and if He is willing, He could ressurrect your dog or cat to live with you on the New Earth. Just a thought.

    There is an interesting comment I heard once, I'm not sure I believe ALL of it, but it says "A dog knows he is a dog, but he has no concept of a creator nor that he was created."
     
  8. LadyEagle

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    Here's an interesting passage. I wish someone who knows Greek would spell it out for us from the Original:

    Whole creation - CREATURE shall be delivered from bondage of corruption? What Creature(s)? It doesn't say "man" but goes on to talk about the liberty given of the "children of God!"

    ALL CREATION groans and waits....! [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]

    Amen!

    Every good gift and every perfect gift cometh from above....the Bible says. Our pets are gifts to us from a Loving Creator and Father! And ask any pet owner - the kids may be brats, but the pets are perfect! LOL!
     
  9. Phillip

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    Since we are here to "debate", I am going to debate you LadyEagle. :D

    It is my humble opinion that God never considered plants in the same light as animal life. If you will remember, before sin came along, animals and humans ate plants. But when sin came along, they began to eat flesh.

    Personally, I believe that even though we consider plant life to be a form of life, that its death is not the same as the death of an animal.

    Yes, plants exchange carbon monoxide for oxygen, but this is more of a chemical process not requiring a "breath" the way we speak of in an animal that pulls air into its lungs with muscle action and exhales the waste. The "breath" of life has been used by the Bible, personally I just don't think it is referring to plants.

    Now, don't get me wrong. Will there be plants on the New Earth. Sure.

    (This is the reason I think it is kinda stupid to get too attached to your rose bush.)
     
  10. LadyEagle

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    It's okay, about the debate part, LOL. You may be right. We will be eating from the Tree of Life One Day. There is a Tree for Healing of the Nations, too. [​IMG]

    In Isaiah, it says the hills and mountains sing. And trees clap their hands, LOL! I do think that in our fallen, yet redeemed state, we just really have no IDEA! (just a few clues given to us in Scripture) Our God is an Awesome God! [​IMG]
     
  11. Ben W

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    Every time the Jehovahs Witnesses call around here with there books, the books have pictures of Lions laying down with lambs all happy and peacefull. [​IMG]
     
  12. Marcia

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    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]
     
  13. Marcia

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    Along with my German Shepherd, Greta! (And maybe my Doberman Conrad and cat Sweet). [​IMG]

    I'm with you, LE! [​IMG] Loved your posts on this one! [​IMG] [​IMG]
     
  14. KenH

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    Doesn't sound like your church members gain any sympathy from you as their pastor when a precious pet of theirs dies.
     
  15. PastorGreg

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    Wow! Has there ever been a thread with so much Scripture taken out of context and misapplied? You guys argue like political liberals or theological charismatics, "Don't confuse me with the facts, this is what I want emotionally, so it must be true." Only man is created in God's image, only man has an eternal spirit. Animals do not, and none of the verses (mis)quoted above give any hint that they do. Can I prove by Scripture that they don't? Technically, no, because it's never addressed in Scripture, and it's almost impossible to prove a negative. But there is not one shred of Scripture that says that a dead animal will be resurrected.
     
  16. KenH

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    God will wipe away our tears in Heaven. That's Biblical proof enough for me.

    Actually, the issue is not specifically addressed in the Bible so none of us can be dogmatic either way. [​IMG]
     
  17. rsr

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    Or catmatic either.
     
  18. KenH

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    [​IMG]

    Good one!
     
  19. Daniel David

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    Dogs will be on the new earth, but cats won't, as they are without honor. Well, they might be there to feed the dogs.
     
  20. LadyEagle

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    Obviously, DD, you have never been loved by a cat, so, therefore, you have not really lived, LOL! [​IMG] [​IMG] ;)
     

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