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Featured The Glorious future for Israel !

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by savedbymercy, May 15, 2012.

  1. savedbymercy

    savedbymercy New Member

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    Accused of the jews !



    Acts 26:6-7

    6 And now I stand and am judged because of the hope of the promise made by God unto our fathers,

    7 unto which promise our twelve tribes, earnestly serving God day and night, hope to come. For this hope’s sake, King Agrippa, I am accused by the Jews.

    Paul Preached the Hope of the Jewish Fathers, of the promise made by God unto them !

    And yet, for that Hope, He was accused of the jews ! Why is that ?

    Why was Paul accused of the ethnic jews of his time, of the hope He shared in common with the Twelve Tribes, that He clarifies as earnestly serving God day and night of hope to come ! Was it not the same Hope ? Evidently not ! So the Hope of the then twelve Tribes who were instantly serving God and of the Fathers, yes the Jewish Fathers, Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, and Paul was not the same hope of those ethnic jews who accused and opposed Paul's Hope !

    This was not the same Hope Paul had before his conversion when he followed scrupulously the jews religion, we gather that from his words here Phil 3:4-11

    4 though I might also have confidence in the flesh. If any other man thinketh that he hath grounds to trust in the flesh, I have more:

    5 circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, a Hebrew of the Hebrews; according to the law, a Pharisee;

    6 concerning zeal, persecuting the church; as to the righteousness before the law, blameless.

    7 But what things were gain to me, those I counted as loss for Christ.

    8 Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord, for whom I have suffered the loss of all things and count them but dung, that I may win Christ

    9 and be found in Him, not having mine own righteousness which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith,

    10 that I may know Him and the power of His resurrection and the fellowship of His sufferings, being made conformable unto His death,

    11 that if by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead.

    So it is clear, that the Hope Paul had, and that of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, the Jewish Fathers, and the current Twelve tribes who were serving God instantly, was not the same hope of the majority of the other ethnic jews who accused Paul ! Who knows why ?
     
  2. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist Well-Known Member
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    There is no difference before the cross and after the cross in regard to the gsopel (Heb. 4:2) or justification by faith (Rom. 4) or progressive sanctification (heb. 11) or regeneration by the Spirit of God/spiritual union/eternal life (Jn. 3:3-10).

    The only difference is a change in the public kingdom INSTITUTIONAL ADMINISTRATION. The previous institutional administration under Moses NEVER justified anyone by obedience to the Law of God (Rom. 3:19-20) but it inlcuded an earthly ethnic and national character of public administration that was inclusive of the civil and religious life and ordinances designed to symbolize the first coming of Christ.

    With the coming of Christ and building the new INSTITUTIONAL ADMINISTRATIVE house of God - the N.T. congregational house of God, the total NATIONAL administration with civil and ceremonial laws has been superseded or abolished and a new qualified ministry (1 Tim. 3:1-13; Tit. 1) and new ordinances have been established that look back at His first coming but forward to His second coming.

    However, it is the same "blood of the EVERLASTING covenant" (Heb. 13:20) but simply a change in the PUBLIC administration (Heb. 9:1) within the professing or apparent kingdom of God.
     
  3. savedbymercy

    savedbymercy New Member

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    When Paul preached the Gospel !



    When Paul preached the Gospel of Jesus Christ, to either Jew or Gentile, the same Gospel Rom 1:16, He was proclaiming to the Jews the fulfillment of God's Promises to that people per Acts 13:26-33

    26 Men and brethren, children of the stock of Abraham, and whosoever among you feareth God[Gentiles like Cornelius who feared God Acts 10], to you is the word of this salvation sent.

    27 For they that dwell at Jerusalem, and their rulers, because they knew him not, nor yet the voices of the prophets which are read every sabbath day, they have fulfilled them in condemning him.

    28 And though they found no cause of death in him, yet desired they Pilate that he should be slain.

    29 And when they had fulfilled all that was written of him, they took him down from the tree, and laid him in a sepulchre.

    30 But God raised him from the dead:

    31 And he was seen many days of them which came up with him from Galilee to Jerusalem, who are his witnesses unto the people.

    32 And we declare unto you glad tidings, how that the promise which was made unto the fathers,

    33 God hath fulfilled the same unto us their children, in that he hath raised up Jesus again; as it is also written in the second psalm, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee.

    But what was not so realized before, that Gentile Men and Women of other Nations also partake of this fulfillment through Christ of the promises made to the Fathers Eph 3:6

    6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:

    So the Gospel of Jesus Christ and His accomplishment of the Cross for the Church, this was the fulfillment of the Hope of the Twelve Tribes Paul mentions in Acts 26:6-7. The Hope of Israel, the True Israel of God, is not some earthly kingdom of glory for ethnic jews that they shall inherit, that is a main reason why Paul was so accused of the ethnic jews, for since His conversion to Christ and being made a Preacher, He no longer shared those erroneous traditional messianic views, generated by their fleshly minds ! The Promises made to the Jewish Fathers in the Gospel were spiritual and heavenly, and had to do with the Resurrection of Christ. And that these same words being preached in Acts 13 to the jews, was asked to be spoken next sabbath to the gentiles also, indicates that they were to be partakers of the same Gospel promises as to the Fathers Eph 3:6, we have it here in Acts 13 these words Acts 13:37-42

    37 But he, whom God raised again, saw no corruption.

    38 Be it known unto you therefore, men and brethren, that through this man is preached unto you the forgiveness of sins:

    39 And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses.

    40 Beware therefore, lest that come upon you, which is spoken of in the prophets;

    41 Behold, ye despisers, and wonder, and perish: for I work a work in your days, a work which ye shall in no wise believe, though a man declare it unto you.

    42 And when the Jews were gone out of the synagogue, the Gentiles besought that these words might be preached to them the next sabbath.
     
  4. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Under the Old Covenat relationship though between God and man...
    There was NO indwelling of the Holy Spirit as today, NO new antures granted as today, and no spiritual giftings as was under new Covenant!

    that is why we are under much more surer, better Covenant today, as what God thru the law was unable to do due to weakness and sin of man, he accomplished thru the messiah and the coming of his holy spirit in a new fashion and way!
     
  5. savedbymercy

    savedbymercy New Member

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    The True Israel of God shall be saved !



    Isa 45:17

    But Israel shall be saved in the LORD with an everlasting salvation: ye shall not be ashamed nor confounded world without end.

    The True Israel of God shall be saved with an everlasting Salvation as promised, and this Israel is comprised of both jew and gentile believers in Christ. The Gentile addition is what Paul calls their grafting in the Covenant Tree Rom 11:17

    And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert grafted in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;

    Acts 4:12

    Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

    This True Israel of God that SHALL be saved, not one them lost, is the Church of Christ whom He gave Himself for Eph 5:25
     
  6. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    isreal was under the Old Covenant relationship with God, the Church is under the new!
     
  7. savedbymercy

    savedbymercy New Member

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    The Hope of Israel !



    Folks contrary to what false teachers teach regarding the Hope Of Israel Acts 28:20, it was never an earthly hope at all, but a spiritual and heavenly one, for this we know from Heb 11:9-16

    9 By faith he sojourned in the land of promise, as in a strange country, dwelling in tabernacles with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise:

    10 For he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God.

    11 Through faith also Sara herself received strength to conceive seed, and was delivered of a child when she was past age, because she judged him faithful who had promised.

    12 Therefore sprang there even of one, and him as good as dead, so many as the stars of the sky in multitude, and as the sand which is by the sea shore innumerable.

    13 These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.

    14 For they that say such things declare plainly that they seek a country.

    15 And truly, if they had been mindful of that country from whence they came out, they might have had opportunity to have returned.

    16 But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.

    This passage of scripture gives us to understand that Abraham with Sarah, Isaac and Jacob, all heirs of the same promise, the Hope of Israel, that they were strongly persuaded with God given Faith on the promise of God, which Promise was not of this earth, because by embracing the Promise, they acknowledged themselves to be strangers and pilgrims to the Earth Heb 11:13, with expectations of a better country, yes even much better than the earthly land of Canaan they were then living in tents in, which served to only typify the land of promise expectation Gen 17:8

    8 And I will give unto thee, and to thy seed after thee, the land wherein thou art a stranger, all the land of Canaan, for an everlasting possession; and I will be their God.

    But the Land they desired set forth in God's promise was Heavenly and Spiritual Heb 11:16. The Land of Canaan that was promised Abraham and His Seed Gen 17:5-8 was Heaven, and it is the same exact Heavenly Inheritance that is realized by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, which all the seed is begotten unto a Lively Hope, and Inheritance that is reserved in Heaven 1 Pet 1:3-5

    3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

    4 To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,[ This is the Canaan of Gen 17:8]

    5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

    Folks the Hope of Israel was not to Abraham and His Physical Seed, but to Him and His Spiritual Seed, through the Resurrection of Christ from the dead !
     
  8. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Hope for national/ethnic isreal through the VCovenant with Abraham, while hope for the Church thru Covevant thru/by Christ!
     
  9. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist Well-Known Member
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    That is simply not true. I have given you specific examples where the Old Testament scriptures explicitly state that the Spirit of God did indwell them (Caleb, Joshua, Moses, Joseph, Daniel, etc.).

    No one denies that the Holy Spirit came in a different manner on Pentecost than before but it had nothing to do with individual salvation as there has been only gospel, one Savior, one way of salvation for one kind of man - sinners since Genesis 3;15.
     
  10. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    he came upon those with specific roles/positions, such as a prophet or King, but NOT coming in indwelling nature in under new Covnenat to ALL...

    Nor were new natures granted at that time, as that had towaiting until yeshua came and actually atoned for sins!

    that is why New Covenant MUCH superior, as not just sins were remitted by God, but now ALL saved by God would have the Holy Spirit in them AND receive promised new hearts/natures, as now the law would be upon their hearts, and NOW would be able to walk in a way to keep it, empowered by the Holy Sprit!
     
  11. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist Well-Known Member
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    These things are simply not true and the scriptures repudiate them all. Romans 8:9 is placed in a universal context that divides all humanity into two classes and only two classes regardless when they lived as the sinful nature is no differen in Cain as it is in you.

    Moreover, Paul has demonstrated that no believer has power to overcome indwelling sin (Rom. 7:14-25) and that apart from the indwelling Spirit it is impossible to walk by faith and yet we have the record of Hebrews 11 do we not? Romans 7:18 denies it is possible for a REGENERATE man to overcome indwelling sin and Romans 8:7 denies it is possible for an UNREGENERATE man to be submissive to the Law of God.

    Your position denies both!
     
  12. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    OT believers did not HAVE the Holy spirit in them permanent basis as we do, he came and went for specific tasks/annoitings!

    that is why there HAD to be a New Covenant , with law upon herats, with new natures/Holy Spirit indwelling, as that was NOT provided for under the old one!
     
  13. savedbymercy

    savedbymercy New Member

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    That none of those men which were bidden shall taste of my supper

    That there is no future hope for the Physical Nation of Israel in regards to Salvation is seen in the words of the Lord here in this parable Lk 14:15-24

    15 And when one of them that sat at meat with him heard these things, he said unto him, Blessed is he that shall eat bread in the kingdom of God.

    16 Then said he unto him, A certain man made a great supper, and bade many:

    17 And sent his servant at supper time to say to them that were bidden, Come; for all things are now ready.

    18 And they all with one consent began to make excuse. The first said unto him, I have bought a piece of ground, and I must needs go and see it: I pray thee have me excused.

    19 And another said, I have bought five yoke of oxen, and I go to prove them: I pray thee have me excused.

    20 And another said, I have married a wife, and therefore I cannot come.

    21 So that servant came, and shewed his lord these things. Then the master of the house being angry said to his servant, Go out quickly into the streets and lanes of the city, and bring in hither the poor, and the maimed, and the halt, and the blind.

    22 And the servant said, Lord, it is done as thou hast commanded, and yet there is room.

    23 And the lord said unto the servant, Go out into the highways and hedges, and compel them to come in, that my house may be filled.

    24 For I say unto you, That none of those men which were bidden shall taste of my supper.

    Lk 14:17 Jesus is speaking of the Ethnic Jewish Nation that had been bidden to Christ through all the Preaching of the OT Prophets until John, and then that of Christ and the first century Apostles !

    Vs 24 here tell us of this nations final rejection of God, and gives no hope in the future of any of them tasting of the Supper, The Marriage Supper of the Lamb !
     
  14. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    You must NOT have the full version of Romans, Chapters 9-11, as Apostle Paul is pretty clear that God has not forgotten His people isreal!
     
  15. savedbymercy

    savedbymercy New Member

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    Zion is the Church !



    Zion and the Church are the same when we consider Ps 132:13-14

    13 For the Lord hath chosen Zion; he hath desired it for his habitation.

    14 This is my rest for ever: here will I dwell; for I have desired it.

    Now Eph 2:22

    22 In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.

    Both are Chosen by God Eph 1:4

    4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

    This is the Chosen habitation of Ps 132:13-14

    For God does not have Two Chosen Habitations, but only One !
     
  16. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    isreal to inherit the land of the Millinium, Church the heavenly jerusalem of that time!
     
  17. savedbymercy

    savedbymercy New Member

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    The Gentiles, God's Chosen He formed for Himself !



    Isa 43:20-21

    20 The beast of the field shall honour me, the dragons and the owls: because I give waters in the wilderness, and rivers in the desert, to give drink to my people, my chosen.

    21 This people have I formed for myself; they shall shew forth my praise.

    Notice, that they, these Gentiles, that God formed for Himself, they shall shew forth God's Praise, as stated in 1 Pet 2:9

    9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;

    Notice also God calls these Gentiles, whom the jews considered beasts, He called them His Chosen, and His People vs 20 !

    This also should give us to understand that when it is said that Jesus shall save His People from their sins Matt 1:21, that included Gentiles also !
     
  18. savedbymercy

    savedbymercy New Member

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    Rom 11:7

    7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded.

    Paul here under inspiration makes it crystal clear that the ethnic nation of Israel in it's entirety was not the Chosen, or Elect people of God, but only a Remnant according to the Election of Grace. The rest of that nation as a whole was blinded, and therefore as a whole were not the Chosen People of God. So it is super folly to suppose a None Elect people have a hope with God, for ethnicity does not merit God's Favor, for if it did, why were the majority of ethnic jews of Israel blinded in the first place , save the election of grace.

    Also, those who did not belong to the election of grace in Rom 11:7, do not become a part of the election of grace later , so they and all other ethnic jews outside of the election of grace, not race, are without hope of Salvation !
     
  19. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Ever since that time, God always has had a faithful remnant in national isreal, messianic jews, and he still has Plans to save all of Isreal in end times!
     
  20. Brobobbywhite

    Brobobbywhite New Member

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    How much longer?

    Does anyone see the rapture taking place in the next 5 years?
     
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